Wednesday, March 17, 2010

Animal rights and the Left

Posted by Mickey Z on 03/17 at 07:23 AM
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  1. Good critique of some contradictions on the left. The united theory perhaps remains elusive because of all of our individual passions and quirks… Your writings, humor and rantings are an excellent guidepost for me as I struggle with the many issues amid my own weaknesses and strengths, on the road to a better world.
    Half of a Happy St. Pat’s to you.

    Posted by Bob T. from Archer, FL  on  03/17  at  08:33 AM

  2. Thanks, Bob T. I’ll head into Manhattan soon to catch a little of the parade vibe.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  03/17  at  08:59 AM

  3. Hey Bob and Mickey

    Great article. if the ecosystem crashes, nothing else matters and our willingness to destroy it is surely the root behaviour (insanity) behind all destructive behaviour.

    What gets me is ...well ... lets say you are Albert or whoever. You are progressive, you hate injustice ...but you haven’t yet personally got into environmental issues. You eat meat or whatever.

    Why ... WHY ... would you look at some people who are not only progressive, but fight to save the environment and protect animals then slander them????

    Why?? Why attack people who are taking non violent action to create good.

    Posted by Andy from Shanghai  on  03/17  at  09:20 AM

  4. Exactly, Andy. It’s one thing for people to focus on their particular issues, or realize that not all of their values are matched by their actions. We are all hypocrites to some extent (in the way George Monbiot has described it, when our aspirations go beyond our actions).

    When I used to read his stuff online, Michael Albert would often repeat that if readers didn’t think that this or that thing (that he cared about, like oppression or impoverishment) could be changed, fine, but they should be in tears when they say so. He could stand to take that message to heart.

    Posted by Keir from here and there  on  03/17  at  10:13 AM

  5. I think there is some truth to Ward Churchill’s point that you initially need to act like the people you want to influence so that they feel they can relate to you and trust you, before trying to lead them to a radical change to their status quo.

    There have been well-intentioned, intelligent individuals and groups making solid arguments and mounting practical demonstrations for decades now, but the “average working person” has continued in a mindset almost wholly counter to these examples. As the climategate and evolution arguments show, intellectual arguments fail to influence or mobilize the masses

    But doing this? This is most assuredly NOT the act of wimps. It is the act of radical insurgents attempting to turn the embedded culture 180 degrees…

    Posted by subgenius from hell-A  on  03/17  at  02:25 PM

  6. You have to be careful. If you take that argument to the standard extreme of internet discussion, one would be required to act like a Nazi in order to influence other Nazis. But people like Ward Churchill don’t encourage that. I think what you mean is that you need to engage the people you want to influence...for example the way MZ often writes about athletes and celebrities who share his values.

    There are reasonable arguments against veganism, to be sure. There are none for animal cruelty. In their statements against animal rights that MZ cited, Albert and Churchill come off really bad.

    Posted by Keir from here and there  on  03/17  at  03:56 PM

  7. By act like them I meant relate to them in a way they can relate to you. That doesn’t imply you have to replicate their exact beliefs and activities, but it does mean approaching them on their “home ground” Mountains, Mohammed, etc.

    There are none for animal cruelty.

    For sure! And there goes probably 95% of the carnivore’s meat supply if this ever happens. Sadly for the moment it looks like it’s all about keeping the dietary meat intake high, but cheap. And those supplying it are the “Cowschwitz” type establishments along the interstates.

    Posted by subgenius from hell-A  on  03/17  at  04:37 PM

  8. good article and thanks for the kink. just going to rate it now.

    As a quick exmaple of some of the problems, nestle have just succeeded in getting a greenpeace advert pulled off youtube.

    It is however now on on vimeo. Worth forwarding to everyone you know and every website just to annoy them i think…

    http://vimeo.com/10236827

    Posted by michael from not scotland  on  03/17  at  05:00 PM

  9. Hello from sunny Astoria. Nice conversation here. It’s a fine line, I know, and we all have our blind spots. Like the Black Panthers that talked all about liberation but still wanted to keep the black woman down. That’s what community is all about: helping us recognize the blind spots.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  03/17  at  05:47 PM

  10. Another “summer” day here in NYC.

    FYI: A new post is now up.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  03/18  at  09:50 AM

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