Monday, September 27, 2004

Chomsky's Trap

Posted by Mickey Z on 09/27 at 11:41 AM
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  1. Mickey-

    As a fairly new reader of yours I am not familiar with the specifics of your views on this subject other than your complete disagreement with the Anybody But Bush philosophy.  I was surprised by Chomsky’s answers to Bush vs Kerry questions on Znet’s Chomsky forum when he first began being asked these questions a while back.  He has definitely fallen into the ABB trap.

    What are your thoughts on the following (perhaps you have written on the subjects already and can point me in the right direction)?:

    Do you think we can make significant change working within our current political system?

    If you believe change can come from within our current political system, is there anyone out there making any sense?

    Outside of your writing, what actions have you taken or recommend taking to change the way things are?  (I noticed work stoppage in one of your earlier blogs)

    Thanks,

    James

    Posted by James O'Shea from Puerto Rico  on  09/27  at  12:52 PM

  2. We live within a system in which one needs $200 million to run for president, candidates other than those from the Dems or Reps are barred from debates, and the corporate media either ignores or derides anyone not toeing the company line. Under these conditions, change cannot be created.

    My goal is to provoke my readers toward independent thought...to see past the propaganda and spin. On a more personal level, I try to live my life in such a manner as to leave as light a footprint as possible, i.e. being a vegan, buying used goods, avoiding products laden with chemicals, etc. I’ve often said, If everyone in America started to live as I do, the corporate commodity culture would be doomed. That’s not a boast...it’s an illustration of how easy it is to take the small steps.

    Beyond that, as American taxpayers, it is our duty to speak out about the behavior of our government and the corporations that own it.

    MZ

    Posted by Mickey Z. from   on  09/27  at  01:09 PM

  3. Well said… Thanks

    Posted by James O'Shea from Puerto Rico  on  09/27  at  01:42 PM

  4. It’s interesting to see people continue to talk about this. Basically, I think Chomsky is essentially correct, it’s not as if there’s NO difference between the 2 representatives of the power elite currently running for office (In fact, merely saying the 2 parties are the same is in no way a radical analysis. That analysis just as easily leads to advocating authoritarians like the Libertarian Party and such. Plenty of rightists would agree with that analysis. The real radical analysis says it‘s awful that we have presidents at all, what is needed is no government, instead mutual aid, solidarity, voluntary cooperation, etc. Give a lefty Green or Socialist some power and she’s just as bad as anyone else.). That said, that serious radicals are giving this issue any type of consideration is absurd; we are such a small minority in this country that our actions have virtually no effect on things like elections. The voting booth is not where real power lies, it’s in our everyday lives and how we interact with others. Direct action is the only real, effective way for radical social change. Personally, I advocate not voting, and agree with the ideas expressed on http://www.dontjustvote.com.
    The worst part about that Chomsky quote is when he says essentially “Working people want us to vote Kerry.” So? Just because they may want us to, doesn’t mean that it’s the correct thing to do. And they really don’t, as evidenced by the fact that most Americans, especially workers, don’t vote in elections, which is probably a positive development.

    Posted by Jake R. from   on  09/27  at  10:40 PM

  5. well said, jake.

    Posted by davidbilmas from hartsdale, ny  on  09/28  at  12:40 AM

  6. Jake’s comments have little to do with my post. Sure, elections aren’t the answer and only serve to distract radicals from more substantive longterm goals. Nothing I said above refutes that or even mentions it.

    On the other hand, since this is my blog, it will reflect what’s on my mind at any given moment. Chomsky was a major influence toward helping me recognize certain patterns and gain confidence in my own perceptions. Thus, his comments (for me) are worthy of discussion. This should not be translated as some grand statement on elections, radicalism, or anything for that matter.

    For me, the juxtaposition of Ahmad’s quote with Chomsky’s take on the 2004 election was something I wanted to share.

    Finally, there’s this comment: “Saying the 2 parties are the same is in no way a radical analysis.”

    Jake might want to look beyond that “small minority” he mentions. In the circles I move in every day, the mere mention that Bush and Kerry are similar is greeted with shock and anger...sometimes pity. On the left, well, the ABB movement shows how even those who are aware can be blind. 99.99% of the people I know couldn’t even grasp the concept of “no government, instead mutual aid, solidarity, voluntary cooperation, etc.”

    My hope, as deluded as it may sound, is to reach beyond the converted and wake some people up the way Chomsky woke me up many years ago.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from   on  09/28  at  06:28 AM

  7. I apologize if I was being irrelevant. Chomsky was a tremendous influence on my “waking up” as well, perhaps the single biggest influence. It’s just that in radical blogs/websites I keep seeing people lamenting how Chomsky is “supporting” Kerry, showing big disappointment, when in fact what he’s saying isn’t anything really capitulating to the status quo or modifying his radical “consistency of substance, of posture, of outlook...”. I really don’t want to be critical of people putting their thoughts out in the open and I really love this blog and the writings of Mickey Z. Also, I’ve found it’s not so hard to go beyond the “radical ghetto”, just this weekend I was able to explain basic anarchist concepts fairly convincingly to a diehard ABB person. Now that was just one person, and it’s super-difficult to reach many people, but it’s not impossible. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with everyone.

    Posted by Jake R. from   on  09/28  at  08:48 AM

  8. I’m sorry if I came off as labeling you “irrelevant.” That was definitely not my purpose...and I agree with you about the general reaction to Chomsky’s election comments.

    Keep spreading the word and thanks for your kind words about this site.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from   on  09/28  at  10:34 AM

  9. I didn’t fully understand the wastefulness of a Kerry vote until a few days ago. A friend described the contest as who gets to be CEO of a board of directors. The company’s mission statement gets tweaked in the annual report and there’s less gloating over the same cruelties. If Kerry gets the nod, long standing policy ensures kids will still get raped in our prisons and other people’s countries. It’s small comfort to them that there won’t be a chimp gloating about it.

    Understanding—partial understanding, really—doesn’t come easily to me. Some things are too horrible to be true.

    I’ll still have respect for Chomsky in spite of the poor logic and bad decision. I’m inconsistent too.

    Posted by harry from upstate  on  09/29  at  05:37 AM

  10. That CEO analogy is useful in America, Inc.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from   on  09/29  at  05:39 AM

  11. Mickey, how the heck are you...smile Thought I’d drop into your site for once and check out the blogs and responses. Feels cozy in here after doing e-combat with ABBs, eggheads, and wonks. Nice piece in CP this morning. The electronic water cooler was full of post-debate analysis that was giving me an aneurysm.

    Just want to comment quickly on brother Harry’s post. Harry, I wish more people were able to adopt your approach to disagreement. Chomsky is very much worthy of great respect and has carried such a disproportionate load of American social criticism at a surprisingly high cost for someone who makes a good living, but has paid a steep price in osctracism by so many of his so-called peers. While I often don’t agree with him, his positive contribution to important civic discourse is inarguable.

    I find myself in Colorado, staring at a ballot that lists Kerry as the most progressive option. My ex-Dem family has seen fit to deprive me of my voice through legal maneuvering. An interesting tactic from otherwise decent people who apparently see no incongruity between this kind of behavior and their screaming about the Florida job in 2000. When push comes to shove, the mask drops, and you see the monster behind it. And he grins and says “gotcha”. And you can find yourself quite alone.

    I wonder what will happen to brother Noam and all of the others who have flinched in the greater struggle when they get a chance to see that grin for themselves. Sadly, I suspect we’ll be having this same conversation four years hence. And on...and on...and on. Okay, time to lay off the brew for the rest of the day...smile

    And thanks, Mickey, for a nice site and plugging away. The best to all of you.

    Posted by Tom from Pick a circle of hell...any circle  on  10/01  at  12:54 PM

  12. Thanks, Tom...glad you stopped by.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from   on  10/01  at  03:06 PM

  13. This is my first blog post, so forgive me if I mess up.

    If I am correct, this is Mickey Z’s blog, right?

    Anyway, I saw this post while checking out the site and decided to post because I think it is an important topic.

    The comment from Eqbal Ahmed, a former Professor from Amherst at Hampshire, was referring to a trap of mainstream liberals I think. That is to say those who are excessivley partisan and take sides with Democracts and fail to criticize them. Chomsky indeed has never fallen into that trap. The standard of those statements does not apply to the election of 2004 for a number of reasons.

    1) Ahmed was referring to criticism in general. If Chomsky wouldn’t criticze Kerry at all once he is elected, or hasn’t critized him at all in the past, then perhaps the standard could apply. However, that is contrary to fact, as one can easily demonstrate.

    2) THe critera Ahmed (from the posted statement at least) gives insight into what he thinks “wavering” is. So, for example, he says CHomsky has never fallen into the trap of thinking Carter had a human rights agenda. That is true and has nothing to do with supporting a lesser evil in an election, which is a seperate and independant question. If, then, Chomsky all of a sudden became uncritical of Kerry’s policies, only then would the standard apply, and CHomsky maybe has fallen into a trap.

    Furthermore, those who think the Kerry and Bush administrations are not different really need to do better better research and start living in the real world. Kerry has constituencies that Bush does not, like black people and labor. He will not go after the domestic population as abusivley as the Bush administration has and will continue to do if given another mandate. The environment is another. No one is saying Kerry will result in any substantive change, like the end of corporations etc. But, small differences in great power structures can yield huge results. Those differences can mean the many lives of people and perhaps creating an opening by which we can build the democractic society we wish we could have so we could someday have an alternative.

    To disregard these differences in support of some supposed higher moral ground, is to essentially say that working people should continue to be radically abused, and that the progressive achievments of the past century should not matter.

    In short, the two issues are seperate and vastly different questions. Thus, we can disregard the comparison, I think anyways.
    I also want to say Mickey Z is one of the best writers on ZNET


    Brandon

    Posted by Brandon Marshall Young from Amherst, MA  on  10/06  at  07:54 PM

  14. Thanks for the kinds words, Brandon...but I must beg to differ, re: Kerry. A man who wrote parts of the PATRIOT Act, voted for NAFTA and welfare repeal, supports the death penalty and the war on drugs, vows to put more cops on the street, and brags long and loud about his record putting people away as a prosecutor is, well, “radically abusing” the working class in my book.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from   on  10/06  at  08:06 PM

  15. I’ll disagree with the thoughts in these comments on the whole . however it may have been express more realted for the detrimental feedback here.

    Posted by dirt bike games from   on  02/22  at  02:44 AM

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