Friday, October 02, 2009

Say No To Dairy

Posted by Mickey Z on 10/02 at 06:46 AM
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  1. You know I gave up feasting on flesh and gobbling the milk many years ago but I just cannot stop with the cheese. In a wonderfully hypocritical way I must have cheddar on my lentil burgers.
    But hey, if I wasn’t a bit of a schizoid and contradictory beast, I would not be a North American.

    I often wonder about you Mick, a cat who cuts across the grain of the mundane with such intensity, yet you seem so enamoured with the branding and accoutrements of the corporate sports complex. I guess that is your cheese on the lentil burger.

    Note on the Tea Tree oil post - I love the stuff and use it for all kinds of things but I believe I read a long while back that it is really bad for cats brains if they ingest it. Have you heard anything to that effect?

    Anyroad, nice to be looking in and reaching out again so I extends of big fat “hola” to all y’all.

    Posted by Youngfox from Adanac  on  10/02  at  07:52 AM

  2. FYI: I just added a “P.S.” to the main post.

    Hey Youngfox...long time. According to this link, yes, tea tree may be toxic to cats:
    http://www.messybeast.com/teatree.htm

    I wish I saw that before I wrote the article.

    As for the “branding and accoutrements of the corporate sports complex,” I have plenty to say on your perception of my Yankee fandom but I don’t have the time right now to do so. In the end, I guess my ultimate reply is that I’m more about intent than purity.

    Captcha sez: steps

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/02  at  09:33 AM

  3. Those comments are incredible. Lets face it, any ‘alt’ site has two problems there. First ‘liberals’ who are just reactionaries with more guilt.

    Second, right-wing agitators.

    In China they are called the 5 Cent-ers, cos they get 5 cents per post or comment working for the gov.

    But also, the sheer ignorance. Soy product is healthy and protein rich. They can start there. And what kind of asshole thinks their cookie dip is more important than the planet they live on.

    Posted by Andy from shanghai  on  10/02  at  10:10 AM

  4. Thanks, Andy. And again, if any of you click on the link to the Planet Green version, please give my article a vote. Thanks…

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/02  at  10:30 AM

  5. Environmental Cry-babies…

    The onion at its best…

    http://ow.ly/15SuMd

    Posted by michael from not scotland  on  10/02  at  10:59 AM

  6. Andy you might want to double check the “healthy” reputation of soy products. No time now but I will dig up some links about soy that question its “healthy” reputation and potential toxicity.

    Not to mention the fact that if your soy product is not “organic” it is probably GMO. I used to use soymilk but switched to almond milk. I do feel physically better for having done that.
    Honestly the almond is probably just as likely to be as “non-green” as many soy products - must investigate further…

    Sorry Mick, Come to think of it I recall bringing up your corporate sports fetish before and rankling you. Not my intent, of course, merely stating that I do not understand this part of your persona as it just does not seem to jive with your very alternative existence.
    I apologize if I hit a sore spot.
    Perhaps I should have kept my gob shut.

    Posted by Youngfox from Adanac  on  10/02  at  11:06 AM

  7. I guess no one on Alternet has read The China Study.

    Posted by Charles from Jersey City  on  10/02  at  11:10 AM

  8. You’re funny, Youngfox. I’m not rankled, you didn’t hit a sore spot, it’s not a fetish, and no one is asking you to keep your “gob” shut.

    As for soy, myths abound but like just about everything: consume in moderation.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/02  at  11:12 AM

  9. Off topic...from the State where they teach children to use guns. Up here there is killing with guns and also bow and arrow. This is the start of bow season.  A lot of Bambis will be killed - and a few hunters too - happens every season. I get sad every time I see a dead deer tied on the back of a pickup truck.

    Still off topic...Good news about the Olympics (but who cares). Would have been hard to understand having the games in the country with the worse health care delivery system. How much did the taxpayers pay to have Air Force One AND AF Two go over there to campaign? How many gallons of aviation fuel were used?

    Posted by RMJ from Ward Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts  on  10/02  at  12:32 PM

  10. Hey Youngfox

    There simply no need to overthink or worry. There’s no bigger critic of lifestyle here than ourselves. Everyone is open to hear any point.

    And we’re all struggling, at various levels of success for various reasons, to improve all the time.

    Saying that, if there’s something you’d like to know, just ask directly. For example, I’m aware of all potential issues around soy. It also happens that I live in China where Soy options are everywhere and part of the culture. It also happens that I’m lucky enough to live near a food store that is 100% organic in all it’s produce. They actually have their own organic vegetable farm that supplies their three stores in the city.

    Not everyone has that kind of access though. The system we live under is very effective in making positives choices hard for people. So you have to start with the pure issue, then move to advice on how to improve.

    Only the warmongers and propagandists need ‘calling out’. People doing their best need solidarity, on the other hand.

    Posted by Andy from shanghai  on  10/02  at  01:06 PM

  11. I stopped drinking milk many years ago...it just began to gross me out.  Maybe it was due to all of the details I have learned about the mass production of it through this site.

    Let’s Go Yank-ees!

    I like that...intent over purity.

    Posted by JOS from Chicago  on  10/02  at  03:03 PM

  12. milk is good .. non-bovine .. my bro-in-law raises goats for MUSLIM AND LAO/HMONG USE .. AND FREE RANGE BEEF ..

    I dont eat much meet .. or drink much milk anymore .. i drink greentea .. but i adore lemons .. with the tea .. and a touch of honey .. that r free to sting me at will ..

    http://tinyurl.com/c4ml7y EARLY BEATLES TASTE OF HONEY

    http://myspace.com/richiedeadhead blogs

    Posted by richie from st james city, FL  on  10/02  at  09:00 PM

  13. meet the meat .. and yes bees r free to sting me and they do—in my tomatoe garden of EVE ..

    http://tinyurl.com/ylnh7xr get down/I M DOWN ..

    richie ..

    GO TWINS .............GOX WHITESOX ..... grin

    Posted by richie from st james city, FL  on  10/02  at  09:07 PM

  14. i m also a loser .. but mickey z and fam ACCEPT ME ANYWHO ..

    http://tinyurl.com/2nzv4y I M A LOSER & I LUV IT ..

    STAY FREE OR JOIN THE RED ARMY .. IF U LIKE !

    http://tinyurl.com/2szosu BECK/LOSER ..

    Posted by richie from st james city, FL  on  10/02  at  09:14 PM

  15. ahh, the sports industrial complex has been killing me for the past three years since i really started to understand the corporate industries of the world during my freshman year of highschool.
    but i still will love the yankees to death and baseball is my passion. Everybody has contradictions in their life, nobody is perfect; I would hope everybody can admit that at least to themselves. Interesting stuff about milk, never knew that before. I think that some of the comments on alternet were at least a bit legit, concerning organic local farms vs. large corporate run farms. This is not my field of expertise in any way, so I guess that makes me wonder about whether there really is a difference when it comes to dairy products. The movie “Fresh” is an amazing documentary about the differences between large farms that produce quantity over quality vs. smaller organic farms. Everybody here should definitely check it out if they haven’t already seen it.

    Posted by Dylan Horowitz from new York City  on  10/03  at  12:20 AM

  16. I read Dave Zirin’s Welcome to the Terrordome recently, and I’ve always read his articles.

    He gives analysis of sports and politics, showing clearly how they can be used and abused, but how they are also their own separate thing that can be used for community and for good. And much more.

    You have David Stern and you have Tommy Smith and John Carlos.

    For Dave it is a battleground.

    @ Dylan and Youngfox. Can you give us some more detailed thought or examples? It’s something I’m also passionate about.

    Posted by Andy from shanghai  on  10/03  at  01:30 AM

  17. how would u feed CHINA FROM AN ORGANIC FARM .. ?

    BIAFRA ?  THE HILLS OF KENTUCKY?  NYC ??  MEXICO CITY ..

    ASK JESUS??  MOTHER/EARTH ??  SHANGHAI NOODLE FACTORY?

    http://tinyurl.com/y9zjrmw NOODLETOWN ..

    PLATITUDES R DANDY FOR THOSE WHO CAN TYPE ON A FULL STOMACH .. ORGANIC OR NOT ..

    I TIP THE SCALES @ 300+ ... I M ON A 2100 CAL DIET

    SLOW METABOLISM .. NO LEGS .. GO FIGURE ..

    richie

    Posted by richie from st james city, FL  on  10/03  at  06:43 AM

  18. noodles

    http://tinyurl.com/y9zjmrw whaaaaaa!

    Posted by richie from st james city, FL  on  10/03  at  06:46 AM

  19. Hi Richie

    “PLATITUDES R DANDY FOR THOSE WHO CAN TYPE ON A FULL STOMACH .. ORGANIC OR NOT ..”

    I’ve got to be honest. I’m rarely able to find any coherence in your posts, although I do try and would love to get a better grasp on your view point. The world is not always coherent.

    It seems that your post is in direct reply to mine and that you take umbrage with it, or something. I’m cool with that, but could you be clearer?

    Posted by Andy from shanghai  on  10/03  at  07:04 AM

  20. Laugh of the day: I just visited the Z Net website and was met with a fundraising plea. They explained that due to the economic climate, they had to enact some “cost cutting” measures. The first one? We stopped paying writers and cartoonists.

    Here’s to revolution…

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/03  at  07:06 AM

  21. And yeah, Richie, I’d like some clarification, too. Thanks.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/03  at  07:07 AM

  22. COHERENCE IS THE REALITY ONE MAKES OF IT ..

    We tap away .. listing our thoughts, concerns - beliefs.  We are on the grid—we enjoy listening to ourselves—bloviate.. and I enjoy learning about various points of view ..

    In the end—24/7—we still need to eat/sleep/drink ** in 1 zillion and one ways.. My way or the hi-way?? I don’t think so.. but then again, I could be wrong. - but that is for , you Andy and Mickey and others to comment on.

    richie

    signing off ps captcha sez money

    Posted by richie from st james city, FL  on  10/03  at  07:21 AM

  23. Just realised i put the wrong link from the onion next to the “environmental cry babies” thing

    It should have been this link…

    Shell Executives Accuse Oil-Covered Otter Of Playing It Up
    http://www.theonion.com/content/news/shell_executives_accuse_oil

    Hope no one took it the wrong way.

    Posted by michael from not scotland  on  10/03  at  07:47 AM

  24. If you believe - based on evidence - that, say, drinking milk is dangerous to human health, animal health, and planetary health...well, it is my way or the highway. I don’t often hear folks debating or challenging the efficacy of gravity but when faced with scientific info on diet, they fall back on “"to each his own.”

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/03  at  09:22 AM

  25. There’s a great website with probably a few hundred links on the page as to why dairy is bad.  http://www.notmilk.com/

    That site was instrumental in helping me give up pizza, finally.

    Posted by Charles from Jersey City  on  10/03  at  09:30 AM

  26. Richie

    I don’t mean change your style or debate what coherence means. I mean that we all respect each other here. If you’re going to refer to my comment as platitudes, you should do me the service of saying why and hopefully explaining your reasoning.

    In the follow up you offer that ‘we like to listen to ourselves’ and then name me and Mickey in a way that suggests it’s all talk - and no action?

    Never mind me, but I hardly think we can suggest that Mickey takes no action.

    My original mention of soy makes a point of saying that I’m lucky to be able to access that, and that many can’t because of concious design by the planners.

    The overall point is that often our choices are out of our control, or at the least made very difficult.

    Posted by Andy from shanghai  on  10/03  at  12:33 PM

  27. Make Space For Organic: after taste and pesticide concerns, going organic was appealing to me because such lands produce 20% more food than corporate monoculture (via mutually-supporting plantings and better care for the soil) The rub is that Widgets International Incorporated can’t make machines in a sweatshop to work the land like that.

    What’s The Score? Dept: #20 about ZNet made me snort my new fave, Stash Breakfast Blend organic black tea (Portland, OR). At the ‘97 Z Media Institute, there was a precious moment when a little down time intruded on the student body. The result? A handful of guys put on the Chicago Bulls game and some gals chatted about recipes and clothes. We all had a laugh about it, which was the point: sports and consumer culture on a short leash.

    Charles, thanks for the Not Milk site. I don’t much like milk but, like Youngfox, cheese sounds a siren call for me.

    In addition to the Michael Moore film that opened yesterday, “Lord, Save Me From Your Followers” is at the corporate multiplex (!). Director Dan Merchant, dressed as Bumpersticker Man, tackles the Jebus culture wars. I’m there. “Zombieland” was good fun and had some existential strength. Nice to see Abigail Breslin again, too.

    Living Colour on Katrina survivors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjh5_mYiVbE

    Helga, how’s in going Down Under? I’ve heard of massive dust storms in Oz.

    Posted by Zen Prole from Pac NW  on  10/03  at  01:43 PM

  28. Totally disagree with the milk article Mickey.  I find your food analyses to be rather superficial, and lacking a deeper understanding of how food is actually produced.  I think factory farming is the problem, not necessarily milk consumption.  That cow “waste” you mention, we small farmers call fertilizer. I’m in tip-top shape and have definitely consumed a lot of unpasteurized organic milk.  No gym pass, no fitness program, just hard work and good food. 

    A few questions:  Do you produce any of your own food?

    Do you know of any vegan farms?

    Do you know of any indigenous peoples who were or are vegan?

    PS- Love the Obama poem.

    Posted by Mike from Cariboo  on  10/03  at  10:52 PM

  29. Mike

    I’m not speaking for Mickey here, but I find the content of this blog has shown a deep understanding of society and food production. For me.

    Being Vegan (which I can’t claim to be, by the way)is both an ethical choice where you decide to take animals completely out of the loop and a scientifically backed healthy and adequate diet.

    I think you’re seeing conflicts where there are none.

    Well, I can see the conflict, because it affects me too. Mickey is saying, with reason, that we could and should give up all dairy. So, as non-vegans it is calling our lifestyle and our choices into question. So we feel personally attacked. Especially if, like you, you have a personal investment in that lifestyle.

    Then we have to consider it and make our own decisions.

    But it is vital that people do challenge each other and discuss and debate this stuff, don’t you agree?

    I made the step to giving up meat and meat products via this blog. Not because I felt pressured to do so by Mickey ...but because I felt justified and supported to do so by a group of people I feel to be rational.

    Mike I think if you’re all self-sustaining and organic, that’s an amazing thing. I support that. I also love to have access to your knowledge via this blog.

    Also, everyone has the right to challenge anyone else here.

    Sorry, I’m meandering now.

    ha ... capture sez: feeling

    Posted by Andy from shanghai  on  10/04  at  02:50 AM

  30. #20...I knew that already Mickey!

    Posted by Rick (the Cartoonist) from England  on  10/04  at  06:15 AM

  31. Mike: To say you disagree and to call my analyses “superficial” is one thing. To counter any of it effectively is quite another. The article covers a lot of ground and is teeming with links and facts but all you offer is some vague anecdotal information. Of course, not all milk is produced in the same way but the reality remains: cow’s milk is for cows and the dairy industry is severely harming humans, animals, and the planet.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/04  at  06:35 AM

  32. if Youngfox, Richie, or Mike want to defend their points, it will have to be done on another thread. I just put up a new post and to be honest, when you see the main topic, you’ll see why we may hold off on the debates for a day or two.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/04  at  06:55 AM

  33. ANDY AND MICKEY .. AND THAT .. meaning your thumbs up response ... IS WHY I RETURN… DAY AFTER DAY .. I ENJOY THE ALTITUDE—ATTITUDE—PLATITUDES .. AND PURE KNOWLEDGE I GAIN HERE DAILY ..

    I TYPE IN CAPS .. DUE TO EYESITE PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WITH MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS .. I POST MUSIC LINKS BECAUSE I WAS RAISED IN A ROCK N ROLL - MUSICAL FAMILY .. MY SON, TEDDY FOLLOWED ME INTO THE BUSINESS.  http://wildpianos.com .

    I READ .. I TAP THE KEYBOARD ONE KEY AT A TIME .. again .. the best I can .. MS.. casualty ..

    I CONSIDER EXPENDABLES MY CYBER FAMILY .. A WORLDWIDE BROTHER AND SISTERHOOD .. well 2 sisters .. AND MANY BROTHERS ..

    in my world .. WHICH CONTAINS BLOOD NATIVE AMERICANS AND HISPANIC .. our worlds intertwine daily .. MY FOLK KNOW I TAP AWAY .. AND THEY LISTEN (well..actually - hear !) ME RAMBLE ON DAILY .. LIVE—IN PERSON .. AND ON THE RADIO BETWEEN 8-11 AM .. DAILY (KNSI 1450AM ..also on the web ) ..

    I LOVE TO RAMBLE ON—IT SLOWS DOWN MY INTAKE OF CARBS .. meat—milk—and carbon monoxide—

    SO .. ANDY .. AND MICK .. POST AWAY .. and help me figure out when THE FIRST MONKEY DID GO TO HELL ... love, richie

    http://tinyurl.com/y97m8lc ramble on live

    Posted by richie from st james city, FL  on  10/04  at  08:05 AM

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