Thursday, October 08, 2009

We Don't Need Them (who remembers "Joe from Oregon"?)

Posted by Mickey Z on 10/08 at 04:10 AM
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  1. I went and read Joe’s DV article.

    It’s great and so true. Haven’t we all learnt the lesson of history and experience, that hoping you can get the oppressor to be a bit nicer than usual is a desperate dead end.

    That’s why something in me dies inside each time I hear an intelligent friend utter some version of the words “if you don’t vote you’re part of the problem” or whatever.

    In fact, that kind of sentiment - that’s it’s socially responsible to vote - is exactly following the idea that the leaders should lead. If you see what I mean. It’s buying into the elite notion that we should follow their system.

    Posted by Andy from shanghai  on  10/08  at  09:58 AM

  2. Thanks, Andy. Joe is missed around here but just as much, he is missing out by not getting to know the more recent Expendables like you.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/08  at  10:01 AM

  3. Thanks.

    I came here because of Z-net. Before all the big expansion there I always read all the essays as they came out.

    There were two writers that I liked most, Justin Podur and Mickey Z. In the end, I found the clarity of purpose in your articles to be much more useful than the longer, more ponderous ones.

    I think we kind of need truthful articles based around a single strong premise and some usable facts to fight the miles of propaganda we get every day.

    So, yeah, I started coming over here.

    This is also one of the very few blogs where if you actually take things to their conclusion and try to play out radical ideas and points, people don’t start crying and taking tantrums. It’s very free and sane, I feel.

    There are not many spaces like it, ‘real’ or ‘virtual’.

    Posted by Andy from shanghai  on  10/08  at  10:20 AM

  4. Thanks again, Andy. So many folks found this blog through my Z Net article but now, Z Net no longer runs my stuff. Then again, neither does Counterpunch.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/08  at  10:23 AM

  5. Screw em.

    I tell you what this made me think of. I mean real dissents and social critics.

    I was having a conversation the other day, happens a lot, where I pull someone up on an author or a historical leader and point out their murderous ways or sexism or racism or whatever.

    An answer that we all hear a lot is ‘they were of a certain time and culture’. Right? We’ve all heard some version of this.

    This is something I feel really strongly about because it implies that people back then were not able to discern the issues because they, and society was at a certain point in it’s ‘development’. That is , of course, utter BS.

    I got a bit annoyed this recent time and told them that if you think of any historical time or place of famous incident or intolerance, there were always victims and people who spoke out.

    You can find the examples, humans were always capable of perceiving injustice and intolerance. It was not easy to say it in public sure, but the idea that people were incapable of making a choice about it is ludicrous. History is littered with people who spoke out or made radical observations.

    F*ck that tired excuse.

    Posted by Andy from shanghai  on  10/08  at  10:41 AM

  6. I feel no personal loss not writing for those sites but I do wish I was able to reach their many readers and perhaps lure a few here to join us. I rarely visit either site and haven’t done so for years but there was a time in my life when the type of info they present was new to me. For that, I value them. For the ego-driven individuals who run those sites like pompous despots, I spit on them.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/08  at  10:44 AM

  7. Love the Orwell quote that prefaced Joe’s article.  I’m ashamed to admit this but I still have not read 1984, and it’s all the more shameful considering I was an English major in college.  I’ll get around to it one of these days. 

    Oh, and I also dug the new Our Father prayer.  So much truth in just a few short lines.

    Posted by Charles from Jersey City  on  10/08  at  11:36 AM

  8. Thanks, Charles. I’m kinda proud of that poem myself.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/08  at  11:53 AM

  9. Hi Charles, Andy, Mickey, and all....

    Thanks for reminding us about Joe from Oregon. He is a very special, compassionate, smart guy. I think of him often.  Where are you Joe? We need you!

    The Senate vote for $636 BILLION WAR FUNDING this week was 93 in favor, and 7 opposed. Fiengold was the only Dem opposed.

    Posted by RMJ from Ward Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts  on  10/08  at  01:52 PM

  10. Feingold strikes me as one of the few decent guys in Washington.

    Posted by Charles from Jersey City  on  10/08  at  02:17 PM

  11. we’ve got a great mix of new and old expendables here now...it would be nice if Joe stopped by and said hello.

    Posted by JOS from Chicago  on  10/08  at  02:28 PM

  12. What a rousing article from Joe from Oregon. I miss his clarity and wit. This line really stood out:

    We shall be slaves as long as we’re convinced that we have masters, and not one moment longer.

    And this one:

    We do not need to ask permission to live like sane, reasonable, thoughtful, compassionate human beings.

    And of course, I love the poem today.

    Andy, your comment in #5 echos a point you made when you first started visiting here, and we had a little disagreement about Tolkien in this context, I remember. I am very glad we had this venue to discuss it, and your points were totally enlightening and convincing.

    $636 Billion in war funding, eh? YES WE CAN!

    Posted by Keir from here and there  on  10/08  at  04:03 PM

  13. Hi Keir and JOS…
    And tomorrow morning the US will bomb the moon. (Hummmm - guess they ran out of earthly targets.)

    Posted by RMJ from Ward Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts  on  10/08  at  05:05 PM

  14. I hear there might be evil doers on the Moon.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/08  at  05:17 PM

  15. bombing the moon…

    Charles posted this on FB the other day:

    http://link-shrink.com/2097

    and here is what they say is orbiting Earth:

    http://tinyurl.com/yfvrf6h

    Jesus H Motherfucking Christ.

    captcha says ‘fear.’

    Posted by JOS from Oak Park  on  10/08  at  05:35 PM

  16. When JOS or Mickey have too much money burning holes in their pockets, I bet they do something nice with it - maybe give it to the homeless guy on the corner.
    Well this is what happens when the government has too much money, it burns a hole in the moon...and I used to like looking at the moon.  It will never seem the same........Harvest moon, blue moon, moon over Miami..........

    The moon will never be the same
    It soon will be injured
    And NASA’s to blame
    A hole in the moon
    Is not what we need
    Just an example
    Of corporate greed
    Blackwater and Halliburton
    Will get big contracts
    To fix the moon
    Where it will be hurtin’
    Seems like
    A money laundering scheme
    Or is all
    Just a long bad dream

    Posted by RMJ from Ward Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts  on  10/08  at  05:58 PM

  17. Just remember, if the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie...blame NASA.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/08  at  06:03 PM

  18. Mickey # 17… I love it. Why didn’t I think of that!

    Posted by RMJ from Ward Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts  on  10/08  at  06:30 PM

  19. You’re not as shamelessly corny as me, I guess. My comedy standards are lower than Vaudeville.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/08  at  06:31 PM

  20. Hi all

    Keir, yeah.

    I did a big blog post on this lately. I try to set out a more detailed guide on what I think determines the reader reaction to that sort of thing. Have a look. It may be BS but one reader liked it and commented, so I was happy.

    If you really want to kick things off and introduce people to the idea that art/fiction reflects and reinforces our ideologies ... get into Raiders of the Lost Ark.

    Everybody loves a ‘boy’s own’ adventure.

    I was also happy to see that my DV piece on The Dark Knight Returns being the movie of The War on Terror had ‘dissident’ commenters in virtual annoyance.

    Of course, works such as Edward Said’s Orientalism do this thoroughly and respectably, I just take cheap shots.

    I’ve got to finish this with a different observation though. Keir, lately your comments have been on fire.

    Also, Mickey, I’m a huge fan of understated corny humor. Keep it coming.

    Posted by Andy from shanghai  on  10/09  at  12:37 AM

  21. Thanks for the compliment, Andy. Amazingly, I think I am a lot less angry than I was for many years. Or maybe just smarter about how and where to direct it?

    That blog post of yours was good. It reminded me of a clip I saw years ago, and just dug up: Planet of the Arabs. (And, off topic) I could go on and on about Polanski, but not against or defending him, but, like you, about the myopic way people look at these issues.

    Posted by Keir from here and there  on  10/09  at  03:39 AM

  22. I use the first paragraph of Joe’s article [joe’s that is, not orwell] whenever possible in conversation or in print...just brilliant.

    Did you see Obama has just won the peace prize?

    Posted by michael from not scotland  on  10/09  at  06:51 AM

  23. Obama is following in the peace-like tradition of Henry Kissinger.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/09  at  07:09 AM

  24. Believe it or not that is exactly what I have just written on my site a couple of minutes ago…

    http://bit.ly/Juk4U

    Posted by michael from not scotland  on  10/09  at  07:11 AM

  25. I believe it, Michael.

    If humans haven’t extinguished themselves before then, one day Obama will be viewed as a respected elder statesman like Kissinger is now while small groups of citizens dream of him being tried for war crimes.

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/09  at  07:16 AM

  26. I put it with a brief summation of some of the discussions on here about him too.

    I also want to put a brilliant thing of Andy’s that I kept on there if he will let me?????? [will put a link of course Andy].

    The thing of Andy’s was this…

    So, Obama’s in and all us ‘liberals’ are happy.
    Just imagine if McCain had won and we saw the following aspects of his campaign carried through:
    - Continuation of the ‘war on terror’ including more troops into Afghanistan (back to the stone age not enough) and promises to cross borders (invade) others if they ‘don’t comply’ - ie invade Iran and Pakistan.
    - a promise to take intervention in latin America “further south” ie ‘deal with’ Venezuela and Bolivia
    - national/single payer healthcare completely off the table.
    - full support of the Cuba embargo
    - refusing to be photographed with the mayor of SF so not to appear as supporting same sex unions.
    - commitment to draconian immigration policies such as the mexico border wall.
    - penal system and capital punishment off the table as is gun control
    - 700 billion handout to companies who preach no nationalization and private competition
    ... hey ..oh ..wait a minute ... my bad! That’s a list of Obama’s campaign - I got confused.

    Posted by michael from not scotland  on  10/09  at  07:17 AM

  27. I suppose there is not just Kissinger. He is now alongside nitwits like the Dalai Lama and religious extremists like Mother Theresa too.

    Posted by michael from not scotland  on  10/09  at  07:23 AM

  28. Personally I think a Dalai LLAMA would be better.

    http://bit.ly/xzXBS

    Sorry for the repeated and whacked out posting. Have taken quite a lot of painkillers as i have f*cked my neck/shoulder again [long term problem relating to several crushed discs a few years ago]. Nothing I can do except wait for the pain to stop which will be about 3 days.

    Posted by michael from not scotland  on  10/09  at  07:27 AM

  29. Feel better, Michael.

    In the meantime, a new post is up. Vegan Twinkies, anyone?

    Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria  on  10/09  at  09:52 AM

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