Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Friday, January 14, 2005
Cruelty and Privilege
Um… Caravan of Dreams can be pretty pricey, so maybe they’ll head over there?
Actually, I kinda hope they don’t. They’d ruin the atmosphere. We have to keep veganism reserved just for us elitists. Would they even know how to pronounce ‘tempeh’?
Posted by James on from New York 01/14 at 07:16 AMYeah, Caravan is pricey in an East Village vegan kind of way...I agree. Compared to the joints Randy and Carlos will frequent, it’s a dive. But hey, let’s invite them there (or better yet: Angelica Kitchen) and teach them: it’s tem-pay...not tem-puh.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from 01/14 at 11:47 AMAs an activist who is concerned with human and animal rights I occasionally have difficulty reconciling my concern for animals trapped for fur with indigenous people trying to retain a semblence of their tradition life that included trapping. I believe the indigenous are often used by white or non-traditional trappers as poster children for the fur industry. However, the Inuit and the Innu and other northern nations do trap animals for sustenance and survival and to sell the furs for money. How do you reconcile the contradiction?
I lean toward supporting those attempting to retain vestiges of a traditional lifestyle, even though this includes the trapping of animals. I believe it would be priveledged and arrogant of me to tell them to abandon their way of life for say mine, when mine includes eating some foods that required transportation that pumps hydro-carbons into the atmosphere that harm both humans and animals. I’d like to know your take on the issue.
Posted by Troy on from Ottawa, Canada 01/14 at 03:50 PMGreat question, Troy...and I’ve been labeled a “cultural imperialist” on this issue. However, it comes down to whether or not one respects animals as they would humans. If so, there is no justification—including tradition—for their torture and murder. I can respect the concept of tradition in theory however, cockfighting and bullfighting are traditions. So is ritual animal sacrifice.
Humans willing to abandon aspects of their traditions and beliefs is an excellent idea...but that does not mean the Inuit need embrace the trucking of food on interstate highways. It means, in the particular case you mention, we put an end to trapping and killing animals, no matter who doe sit or why...AND we come up with a better way to organize our food delivery and consumption habits. To me, it’s not one or the other...it’s neither. they are both destructive and illogical.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from 01/14 at 04:50 PMHere it is:
“However, it comes down to whether or not one respects animals as they would humans.”
Is all life created equal? Since I don’t even acknowledge all human life is created equal (Paris Hilton should be euthanized for the betterment of the world, as one shining example), I recuse myself from the philosophical part of this discussion, and stick to practical parts: What vegan solution is there for human existence in the Arctic? Ain’t much green and leafy there. Lichens won’t sustain life for long. So we’re back to trucking in green, leafy stuff from the overworked farm soil of the Great PLains in the US and Canada.Surpluses are signs of a bad delivery system (based around the profit motive, consequently cockamamie in its results when viewed rationally, without reference to market forces)...but genuine (where’s it coming from, how much more will we need, etc.) and notional (how much fuel will it take to get it there, how much does the stuff weigh) costs are large when we start to “reorganize” the delivery systems for any essential item, including food. More like we have to re-envision what we base our value system on to make any reorg function.
I’m on record with you, MZ, as scoffing at the likelihood of that reorientation of values. Humankind just ain’t very kind but is very human.
Posted by Richard on from The great Red State of Texas 01/14 at 05:38 PMPardon, just came down from almost 24 hours of proofreading… ah, the life of a perma-temp. I’m a bit over Anjelika’s; they seem to raise their prices and reduce their portions a bit too much. And I’ve finally faced it that tha tempaaahh’s just better at Caravan, $ or not.
Don’t know much about the Inuits, but good tempeh downtown, I can understand… this was all pretty cool, but some other times I’ve seen Mickey write about vegan issues, I’ve been amazed by the hassling he gets, esp. by the kids on pressaction… the relatively minor details people will bring up to justify all kinds of nonsense… These are people who comprehend complex political theory that I’m such a novice with, but animal cruelty-- that to them is such a puzzle to quibble over and insult Mickey for.
But yeah, it’s issues like the finding sustainable cruelty-free food sources in the Arctic that remind me how spoiled I am to live in New York.Posted by James on from New York 01/15 at 02:42 PMWell, Permatemp, welcome back to the world. Can’t say as I see the issue of “where is the food coming from” and “how are we gonna get it from where it is to where we need it” are so minor...and the Arctic Inuits were just an extreme example of the logistical problem.
It’s cold here in Texas, about 45 degrees, so I’m going to huddle under my mink blankie now.
Posted by Richard on from The great Red State of Texas 01/15 at 02:50 PMPardon, Richard-- I was thinking of other times I’ve seen this similar discussion… I started out saying this time was pretty cool, should emphasized that more. Compared to other exchanges I’ve read, and even on its own of course, these were really good points all around.
Posted by James on from New York 01/15 at 04:09 PMTangentially speaking I would like to point out that Mickey Z has once again had the relative courage to point out the inherent crime, ugliness, and absurdity of the Amerikan professional-sports addiction.
Kudos!
Sadly, even the most ardent Leftist will blanch at the idea of missing “the game”.
I’ve been two years professional-sports-free, and I encourage others to break the habit and heal their addiction.
I find it odious in the extreme for so called “blue-collar” athletes and their “white-collar” salaries to find refuge and protection in “players’ associations” while the rank-and-file working “grunts” in Amerika have—for all intents and purposes—no protections whatsoever.
In other words, those who need and deserve Unions aren’t “allowed” the “privilege”.
The crimes of making taxpayers pay for stadiums, and the out-of-sight profits of the owners-and-corporations behind the corporate-product colloquially known as “my team” go without saying.
I recently came across a 2001 article titled “21st Century American Style Economics”, by Ruth Gadebusch.
The article was accompanied by a cartoon by Mike Thompson (Detroit Free Press) which I will attempt to describe as follows:
The cartoon graphic displayed two caricatures: one of Michael Jordan, the other of a disheveled 60 year old (or thereabouts) woman.
The caption for Mr. Jordan read:
“Played a child’s game better than anyone, made millions”.
The caption for the woman read:
“Took the bus to work for 30 years where she toiled 60 hours a week for minimum wage to support three children she raised all by herself”.
The Cartoon’s main caption read:
“Who had the more impressive career?”.
The answer is glaringly obvious to me.
Beyond the wrong-priorities and sociopolitical aspects of professional sports, I find—in retrospect—the idea of investing emotional capital in corporate products patently absurd.
There are so many real and meaningful issues in which to invest...why allow your moods to be adversely affected by which corporate product “beats” another?
On the subject of cruelty and torture of animals:
Mickey Z, I’m with you one hundred and ten percent.
I began striving toward the Vegan ideal a year and a half ago, around the same time I threw out my television.
I strongly encourage all who will listen—and especially those who don’t and won’t—to do the same: Veganism or throwing out your TV. Either one or both will do you a world of good.
In solidarity and complicity,
David Emanuel
Posted by David Emanuel on from Yonkers, NY 01/15 at 04:46 PMThanks for the great posts, David. Like your quest to go vegan, I’m working on weaning myself off sports. It’s not easy for someone born and raised on it. I’ve played sports my whole life...and continue to do so.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from 01/15 at 06:24 PM
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