Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Thursday, March 03, 2005
George Bernard Shaw says:
I am not sure what you are connecting here. Should we be cynical of scientific research. Yes. The guy who made the atomic bomb freaked out after he realized what it could do. So for me the joy that scientists proclaim when they discover something is always tempered with what is the purpose of it. Are these scientists working on a pain machine ethical?
Why are they doing this? Why aren’t the scientists who are wondering being more emphatic about their suspicions? Good grief. It is enough to make one a conspiracy freak. Perhaps that is why I am suspicious of new wonder drugs and wonder why they have not found the “cure” for cancer. Who is paying for all this research?Posted by Rhondda on from Canada 03/03 at 04:36 PMI’m not sure what I’m connecting here either. I posted the Shaw quote and, a short time later, Greg Elich sent me the pain/weapon article. It gave me this sense of living in a post-cynicism age so I posted the article, too.
Your comments, Rhondda, make a whole lot of sense to me. Thanks.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from 03/03 at 04:43 PMWhat do you mean by post-cynicism age? I think people are so cyncial that they don’t care anymore.
Oh well that’s life seems to be the mantra. Is that what you mean? I have watched good people devolve into “I just have to make a living, so I will go along with this. Don’t want to be a bag lady after all.”
I left my government job because I could not stand it anymore. It was my co-workers who went along with it all and laughed about my constant “stiring of the pot” I think people have to be cynical, but not let it become a way of life. Group think is rampant and it scares me.Posted by Rhondda on from Canada 03/03 at 05:03 PMI was thinking along the same lines, Rhonnda. Also, it’s just so hip to look down one’s nose at activism now. Chris Rock, at the Oscars, made a snide comment about Tim Robbins boring us to death with his politics. Yeah, it sure is boring trying to think for yourself and help a few people along the way.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from 03/03 at 05:16 PMi agree. I only watched the opening comments by Chris rock because I thought he might really say something. When he tempered his comments by giving the other side, I just thought this is not funny.
I shut it off. I am not surprised. He has to make a living after all. Although, I did come back and see what’s his name with the tape over his mouth and wondered what is this? It is the attitude that we are all controlled by something. With me it was the welfare of my kids. They are adults now, but it was I would go along with stuff for them. I now wonder if that was the “right” thing to do. Everyone has lines they can’t cross,but why does it seem to be a material concern and not something more principled?Posted by Rhondda on from Canada 03/03 at 05:31 PMGood comments. Materialism is used because it is easy to induce fear through playing “take away” as Stuart Wilde calls it. And fear is used to force a choice on us.
If you believe in an after life, then the choices you make in this one determine the next. The choices all boil down to one - between compassion and exploitation. This is the Great Battle that lies beneath the surface. And it doesn’t matter whether you win or lose here but which side you choose. I dare say Chris Rock and Tim Robbins are telling us their choices.
I don’t wish to sound too “holy” here but I speak as a torture survivor and feel I know something about this.Jim
Posted by Jim Shanahan on from 03/03 at 06:04 PMThe genius of capitalism: Give the peons just enough to pacify and distract them...but never let them forget that it can be taken away and then they’d have “nothing.”
Btw, Jim, was it you that recommended I interview Oliver Sacks? If so, an update: I got as far as his personal asst. but he’s writing a book and not doing interviews now.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from 03/03 at 06:10 PMYes, it was and thanks. Should be more than interesting when both he and you have time.
Jim
Posted by Jim Shanahan on from 03/03 at 06:35 PMI am not sure what you mean “if you believe in an afterlife then ... If I choose compassion, does that mean I have to believe in an afterlife. I have no idea what comes after this life, but I believe in compassion. The question for me is where is the boundary for me and another person? When I was a child I read Dickens A tale of two cities. I was entralled by the character that gave his life for another. Is that romaticism? I am sure I could not do that, but there is a line I cannot cross and I have told my kids that. this is the line. For my kids I could die, but for you, maybe not. for me compassion is realizing that one’s ideals may not be the ideals of another person. Compassion is willingness to accept anothers boundary. Jugement is a whole other thing entirely.
Posted by Rhondda on from Canada 03/03 at 06:48 PMYeah, with all due, Jim: I’m all about life BEFORE death.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from 03/03 at 06:52 PMRhonda, I applaud what you are doing and saying. Perhaps i could have expressed myself better. I wasn’t saying that if you believe in compassion you must neccessarily believe in an afterlife but rather the otherway round. I was trying to point out IF one believes in an afterlife of whatever shape and hue, THEN one must choose compassion over exploitation ELSE one is doomed by the logic of one’s own beliefs. The fundo fruitcakes cope with this situation with massive amounts of denial which is why they are always screaming as if someone’s stepping on their corns which, of course, is the case.
Mickey, I want to live now, too. I wouldn’t be alive now if I didn’t. This is getting pretty personal for me, but what the hell. It’s useful as an extreme case. I was threatened with immediate death by people I had seen murder others if I didn’t do a particular thing. I didn’t/couldn’t and somehow I lived. Now if I had chosen to do it to survive then, ironically, I would probably be dead now through suicide. When you prostitute yourself in whatever way, then, you degrade your life and it is less worth living. It takes away your courage. Being compassionate gives you courage and enhances your life and being. You are literally more alive as both you and Rhonda, no doubt, are for choosing compassion which is also justice. I don’t mean to sound esoteric but it is very real for me.Jim
Posted by Jim Shanahan on from 03/03 at 10:53 PMWow Jim, when it is life and death, then I guess you know what you are talking about. Good for you. I might have not had that much courage. I told my kids that life was more important, but that is a mother talking. One has to live with oneself too.
Posted by Rhondda on from Canada 03/03 at 11:43 PMJim,
Please know I meant no disrespect. It’s a reaction I often have when told about life after death.
Thanks for sharing…
MZ
Posted by Mickey Z. on from 03/04 at 06:21 AMNo offence taken, Mickey. These short comment forums have limitations in dealing with some major issues and I kinda upped the ante. I am very hesitant to share because of past strong reactions but I have learnt that there is a HUGE self-interest reason for being compassionate towards others and not accepting exploitation of yourself or others and that is that you really come alive, dignity and creativity bloom. Many people experience this (including yourself, Rhondda and other commenters here, I’m sure) without realising it. I wish I could explain it well so as to encourage others to take risks for justice etc. and live. There is a huge irony at play here, “He who would save his life (for itself) will lose it” as someone famous once said!
All strength to your arm.
Thanks for the space, JimPosted by Jim Shanahan on from 03/04 at 05:25 PMWell, I’m really glad you felt comfortable enough to share some of it here. Looking forward to many more comments from you, Jim.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from 03/04 at 06:33 PM<http://www.newscientist.com/channel/mech-tech/mg18524894.500>
Shamefully, this study into pain is likely a part of the “defense industry” that we pay for. There are people dedicated to learning how to cause maximum pain and receiving money and accolades for their contributions. That is simply societal crime in action. These same people will go home after a hard days work and enjoy their family’s and leisure time. Hard to conceive of all that at a glance.
Now if it isn’t foul enough that people are willing contributors to overt criminal acts against humanity (defense industry workers and contractors who buy them), think about the folks who will put this new pain technology to work. . . That’s right, it’s our kids; 18-35 year old adolescents will be the bearers of this technology--the same kids that will spend hours per day watching mindless violence on television in zombie-like fashion.
Television, it’s not just your friend, it’s your teacher too!
Sometimes cynicism seems to be the only way to vent.
--
Wishing you well.Posted by J Byrd on from Eureka (like the vacuum) CA 03/05 at 03:48 AMAlong the same lines, I have often contemplated those in the medical profession who are hired by governments (typically U.S. clients) to help with torture. Their job? To monitor the level of torture in order to keep the victim alive long enough for the torturers to extract information.
First, do no harm...?
Posted by Mickey Z. on from 03/05 at 09:12 AMYour comment made me think of the inquisition and the torture and killing of the pagan healers. I seem to recall reading somewhere that that was the beginning of the medical profession. It continues now with the dismissal of any alternative healing methods.
Posted by Rhondda on from Canada 03/05 at 09:31 AMWith the goal, I’m sure, to criminalize alternative healing methods.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from 03/05 at 09:36 AM
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