Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Monday, August 22, 2005
Questions inspired by Cindy Sheehan
How many of the crosses that were put up along the side of the road in Crawford, were there to honor the Iraqi civilians that we killed? The wars will not end until their deaths are as painful as our deaths....or maybe until their deaths are even more painful...afterall, WE are the invaders and occupiers. It seems to me that the victims of aggression deserve a little more sympathy than the perpetrators. I support Cindy 100%, but wonder where she was BEFORE her son was killed.
Posted by rosemarie jackowski on from crossing the line 08/22 at 01:23 PMHi Rosemarie - and Hello Mickey - it’s good to hear from you. I hope all is going well for your mother. You know, as I was reading your piece above, I could literally SEE Kerry, in my mind, feeling Cindy’s pain. He actually had tears in his eyes. ( The best “con-people” in the world are in the Federal Government. Many are as good in their “roles” as DiNiro or Sean Penn. ) I must admit, I don’t think Cindy would be there if Clinton was still at the helm… (He was the Marlon Brando of DC...)
As to Rosemarie’s comment: One has to wonder where most of the Gold Star Families are getting their news. If not from the mainstream media, it’s probably through various Libertarian news-letters. According to Greg Moses, who writes frequently from there, for CounterPunch, Libertarians are perhaps the main “opposition group” represented there. It may well be that the Iraqi casualties are rarely discussed, which wouldn’t be surprising. The majority of “mainstream” opposition to the war arises out of self-interest; this is bad for me and mine…
I read a piece last night about the Egyptian Muslim who is really the father of modern radical Islam. He was in Colorado, in 1948, when the US supported the creation of Israel. He realized that, here in the West, the lives of white Europeans and Americans are considered precious - while the lives of the hundreds of thousands of displaced Palestinians were considered meaningless. They weren’t even important enough to be discussed. He got pretty angry and went back to Egypt.Much of what we see at Camp Casey is a “good start.” But, we’ll have crossed a major threshold when we realize, as you said so eloquently, Rosemarie, that the victims of our aggression deserve our wholehearted concern - and that our own children, though they have been forced to be such, are the aggressors…
Posted by joe on from Oregon 08/22 at 03:00 PMHi Again, Mickey -
Since it’s so very quiet here, today, I thought I’d take an additional moment to applaud, in particular, one of your sentences from todays “front page:”
“The primary difference between Democrats and Republicans (especially on the highest levels) is that they tell different lies to get elected.”It’s impossible to over-estimate how important it is that “Democrats” and “Liberals” come to understand the naked truth of that statement.
Harry put it a bit differently, but no less powerfully: “We’re all left to argue over which Elite group is less likely to prey on us...”Government works for wealth and power. Period.
Posted by joe on from Oregon 08/22 at 05:44 PMMickey,
although I am a ‘lesser evil’ person, I fully agree with what you say about the support of most Dems for the war - I could not believe some of the statements coming from Kerry during the presidential campaign. Tweedledum and tweedledee indeed ..
How is your Mum? Holding up well, I hope!
Helga from Daylesford, AustraliaPosted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 08/22 at 06:14 PM“To concern yourself with surface political conflicts is to make the mistake of the bull in the ring, you are charging the cloth. That is what politics is for, to teach you the cloth. Just as the bullfighter teaches the bull, teaches him to follow, obey the cloth.”
- William Burroughs, 1961 interviewMost countries are one-party systems masquerading as two or three, although minor divisions do manifest themselves occasionally - similar to bankrobbers who can agree how the job is to be done but not how to share the spoils, it suits the agenda perfectly when these squabbles break out into the public arena because it lends authenticity to the Rep vs Dem or Labour vs Tory theatre.
Posted by Owen on from Barcelona 08/22 at 07:36 PM“The primary difference between Democrats and Republicans (especially on the highest levels) is that they tell different lies to get elected.”
Amen! BUT… Some lies are worse than others.
Posted by SH on from 08/22 at 07:46 PMI had the singular displeasure of being forwarded a petition John Kerry is circulating through his supporters (I happen to know one or two) this morning. I can tell you exactly what Kerry would have done if a different Yale Fortunate Son had landed in the White House: he would have diffused the power Sheehan and her supporters have generated.
Kerry’s petition this morning (http://www.johnkerry.com/petition/answers.php) makes absolutely no mention of the grass roots, people-oriented movement taking place in Crawford that gives his very line of questioning any sort of legitimacy at this particular moment.
Question: what’s worse, that one side beats us down by pretending not to notice, or that the other side beats us down by pretending to care?
I myself think that the enormous power Cindy and her movement have is not only in the potential to embarass both parties (and the Bush Administration especially), but also to help regular, middle-of-the-road folks sympathetic to Cindy scratch their heads and ask where the hell their supposed political leadership is on this. The Siege of Crawford might help one or another of the political parties (Democrats, Greens, or Libertarians, I suppose) distinguish itself--a good thing, whether we’re merely bullfighting or not.
Posted by Keir on from New York, momentarily 08/22 at 10:24 PMI think the problem, ultimately, is that, whichever party ultimately assumes dominance ( and, for the moment - and for a long time to come, the Neo-cons are very, very firmly in control), the system itself is rigged to screw us. The entire structure of government is designed to keep us peasants in our place, and keep those with wealth and power - well, wealthy and powerful. If we’re to have any hope at all for meaningful change, the system itself will have to be dismantled.
Imagine how massive a shift that would be.
Presently, the population just isn’t ready for such a thing. It’s not even ready to imagine such a possibility. Yet, even if the Greens somehow rose to center stage and some Nader-like figure was to become president, it would soon be business as usual.
Put any sort of liquid you like into an ice-cube tray. In a while, you’ll have cubes…
Cindy is a great first move, and a necessary one, it seems. But this movement is but a start. With enormous luck, it might be that spark that starts the fire…Owen, what’s the political climate like in Spain? Has any of that astonishing anarchist spirit survived over the last century? Some of the things I’ve read, about relatively small-ish enclaves of anarchist workers in Spain, before they were massacred by Left and Right, during the Civil War, seemed to me perhaps the finest examples of how human beings might live and work together in peace and with great mutual respect…
Posted by joe on from Oregon 08/22 at 11:08 PMIt’s interesting to me that the Cindy Sheehan thing has become so large. Here in Santa Barbara, there is a group of war veterans who go to the beach every sunday and plant white crosses in the sand, in rows and columns, with the names of U.S. soldiers who have died printed on each one. At first, they were doing it by themselves. Now, the number of dead is so large that they require extra volunteers. There must be other interesting protests going on. Why don’t we (I) hear of them?
Or, is the Sheehan case so spectacular and sensational to deam it newsworthy?-------------------------------------------
Of course, the Dems and the Reps are the same. Just like everything else at the mega-capitalist scale eventually boils down to bipolar illusions of competition - Pepsi Cola vs. Coca Cola, McDonalds vs. Burger King, Macinblotch vs. Micro$uck.
Posted by august on from santa barbara, CA 08/23 at 10:34 AMYou can still feel it here Joe, especially in Barcelona being a port city (should really be the capital of Spain but what happens when fat controllers take over a country is they move the capital inland, which is also why Brasilia -nothing but field fifty years ago - is capital of Brazil instead of Rio). There’s a healthy disrespect for elite here if the thick layers of graffiti around the city are anything to go by (used to break my heart when I’d see it cleaned but now I think fresh canvas) and seeing as Spain switched from overt dictatorship to covert quite recently there’s plenty of older Catalan guys will tell you the best metrostations to distribute literature undetected. I come from a country where the cops aren’t armed so the ones here were a bit of a surprise, head to toe in black with those berets on one side of head like in the Vatican, they look like something out of Philip K Dick and on the hoods of their cars are painted the old symbol with two axes with bundles of sticks fastened around their handles, the sticks representing the people bound together by force (an old Roman symbol called ‘fasciae’ where we get ‘fascism’ from - you can also see the symbol on the Congressional and Colorado state seals) I don’t watch teevee anymore cause it is the usual aggressive spoonful of fear: aids death war famine terror recession war on terror (it’s comical here because horror films here are called terror films so you can have war-on-terror news cut straight to a commercial advertising a Classic Terror DVD), despite this people here don’t seem as tuned to the mass-programming as in Englishspeaking countries. The Madrid bombing cover story was blown quite early when the guy who supplied the explosives was arrested with the private phone number of the Guardia Civil bombsquad chief in his pocket and two of the suspects turned out to be police informers - of course the airwaves are still screaming Arab this and Arab that but when you call the state story a lie here the response I’ve found much more often is an amused ‘Well prove it please’ instead of calling you a crank or denouncing your patriotism. The strategy the European Union is taking to rally the herd into a superstate is a little more subtle than the bullyboy tactics in the White House - not because populations in this continent are any more or less subtle than those in the US, but simply because Europe hosted the last major step towards world government between 1939-45 and thus the softshoe approach is called for here. Hitler called his financial plan the Europaischegewirtschaftsgemeinschaft - European Economic Community - they didn’t even bothered renaming it. If this had been suggested fifty years ago there would have been public outrage but public opinion has been softened up some, now it’s gotten to the stage it is illegal to criticise the Union. In the universities standardised economics courses are being taught from next year - what you learn in Bonn you’ll learn in Prague, Dublin, Paris and so on - and the emphasis has changed from exploring possible economic models to dealing with the ‘realities’, also the economics subject is being moved to the Political Science faculties. Small countries found themselves being flooded with Union paperwealth in the last 15 years with places like France and Germany being held on a short leash by the bank, the idea being once the Union is an established enough entity the bank pumps money into the larger countries, interest goes up and places like Ireland, Spain, Greece will be plunged into depression and have to sign up to become effective colonies of France and Germany, which are Union colonies themselves anyway. I used to find this quite bleak but here I enjoy being surrounded and encouraged by so many peaceful and funky writers, artists and musicians who don’t take any of this crap lying down.
Posted by Owen on from Barcelona 08/23 at 11:21 AMHey, Guy from Santa Barbara -
I’ve read a bit about those vets who put crosses on the beach. Some of them took a bunch of crosses down to Crawford, so their group, toQ ented down there. You’re right, though, relatively speaking, they’ve gotten almost no publicity. I guess the image of a lone mother “crying in the wilderness,” and directly challenging the White House, has captured the public imagination, somehow. I, too, have been astonished by the fact that Mrs. Sheehan was allowed to slip through that generally impervious media screen of ours.And, that’s a superb insight, man, about the illusions of so-called corporate competition. You’ve sure summarized the whole game. From politics to automobiles to panty-liners to Swiffer-sweepers to children’s toys. From the oceans of air to the great seas. Multinational corporations: replacing all the world’s beauty and colors with cheap grayscale… forever.
Owen - thanks much for your pictures of Spain and Europe.
The police there sound like Jesuits, with guns. Whew, what a very frightening combination. ( Of course, [anyone] & [gun] is generally a bad combination. )
“…the people bound together by force…”
I guess that’s the plan for the entire world. You’ve painted a pretty grim picture of the European edition of the New World Order. Well, it seems they’ve been working toward this end for a very long time. I’ve read many quotes, which refer to “it,” which date from the early `70’s.
My guess, though, is that it runs much farther back, to the creation of the Fed, in ~1910, and even before, to the creation of the great central banks in Western Europe and in England. We’re to become vast herds of cattle and sheep to be sheered or butchered at their whim. ( Though, in many - even most respects - we’re ‘that’ already.)
Are you - or is anyone - capable of pronouncing that German phrase for European Economic Community?
Well, Owen, there are some small mountains “behind” my house, and a stream runs along the rear boundary of the yard. I’m going to go out to the stream bed, now, and look up at the mountains and listen to the motion of the water over the rocks, and take some long, slow breaths, before returning to the stuff of the day. I appreciate your post very much, Owen. Thanks. And thanks to you, too, guy from Santa Barbara. -joePosted by joe on from right here 08/23 at 03:31 PMJoe, those mountains and the stream sure sound nice. Makes me want to pay Oregon a visit…
That Cindy’s got a fire in her belly...maybe that’s why she has hit a nerve:
“If you fall on the side that is pro-George and pro-war, you get your ass over to Iraq, and take the place of somebody who wants to come home. And if you fall on the side that is against this war and against George Bush, stand up and speak out.”
Posted by James on from Puerto Rico 08/23 at 03:43 PMHi James, good to hear from you.
Yes, it’s strangely beautiful here. Very hot and dry, so there’s a desert-like beauty to everything, which is quite alien, vis a vie the deep, humid, lush green of upstate New York. It’s taken me some time to get used to it. And, it’s not like California, which seems to literally burst forth with millions of flowers when even a mist flows over the land. This is some “other” world, with which I’ve not been familiar. Also, there have been some cougar sightings in this immediate area, recently, so I’m a little wary when down in the stream bed. “Innocent” sounds take on ominous meanings in my timid little human brain…I’ve always wanted to visit Puerto Rico, James. Most of the images of the countryside look very, very beautiful, indeed.
“Democracy Now” had a lengthly piece on the Crawford groups yesterday. (Some pro-Bush groups have now arrived, to support our President, our courageous leader, during these difficult times...) D.N. televised a variety of speeches given there, Friday evening, I think. There are many very bright, very tough, very articulate women ( and men ) there. One woman who spoke, mentioned that the Gold Star Families were consistently demonized by the media pundits for making our troops feel “bad” or “demoralized.” She said she was one of a large number of families which recently demonstrated just outside of a military base down south. They were visited by many soldiers, she said, and the soldiers were impressed by their courage and their message. Even those who did not agree with their perspective said they were not angry that the families were demonstrating. Most of the soldiers said they felt they had joined the military to protect the right of American citizens to speak the truth and to be critical, if need be, of the government.
I guess we won’t hear excerpts of that speech on the nightly newscasts, eh?Posted by joe on from Oregon 08/23 at 04:34 PMThat’s for sure, Joe. We won’t be seeing that interview...what we do hear on shows like Meet the Press is that the Crawford groups are “anti-war EXTREMISTS.” To me, they are about as extreme as my aunts in Oak Park, IL. They’re just telling the truth.
PR is beautiful (beaches, rain forest, people) and ugly (constant costruction and too many buildings) at the same time. Lonely Planet has a good descritpion:
An island whose shiny consumerism rubs up against its unspoilt interior. Puerto Rico is where four centuries of Spanish Caribbean culture comes face to face with the American convenience store.
----
It’s a wonderful place, filled with beautiful people and amazing food. But many areas are over run by buildings and littering is a problem. Most problems can be blamed on the good old influence of the US of A in my opinion.
Definitely pay us a visit, we have recently been ranked the #1 happiest people in the world (if you can believe it).
Posted by James on from Puerto Rico 08/23 at 05:43 PMDespite appeals for a new trial and clemency based on new evidence, a confession, and questions of a fair trial, on August 23, 1927 two anarchists Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti were murdered in the electric chair by the state of Massachusetts. 50 years later they
were posthumously pardoned by governor and future presidential candidate Michael Dukakis.
Questions of patriotism, antiwar draft dodgers, foreign born radicals on the side
of the poor and working class, if Sacco and Vanzetti were alive today I believe they would have met the same fate.
Since they work so hard to shut them up, it does government good to pardon executed radicals and issue commemorative postage stamps (Malcolm X). Now they can shut you up. they gave you a stamp what more do you want? I’m glad they were pardoned, I just wished it happened when they were alive.
In 1945 Woody Guthrie, commissioned by Moses Asch wrote a series of songs on the trial of Sacco and Vanzetti. This is one of my favorite songs from his album Ballads of Sacco and Vanzetti. Guthrie’s songs are more in depth than the brief mention of Sacco and Vanzetti I got in high school history class.Red Wine by Woody Guthrie
Oh, pour me a drink of Italian red wine;
And let me taste it and call back to mind
Once more in my thoughts, and once more in my soul,
This story as great, if not greater, than all.
The AP news on June 24th
Told about a patrolman named Earl J. Vaugh.
He stepped on a Main Street trolley car
And arrested Sacco and Vanzetti there.The article tells how Earl J. Vaugh
Is now retiring as an officer of law;
This cop goes down in my history
For arresting Sacco and Vanzetti that day.It was 1920, the 5th of May,
The cop and some buddies took these men away,
Off of the car and out and down,
And down to the jail in Brockton town.“There’s been a killing and a robbery
At the Slater Morrill shoe factory;
You two gents are carryin’ guns,
And you dodged the draft when the war did come.”“Yes, ‘tis so, ‘tis so, ‘tis so,
We made for the borders of Mexico.
The rich man’s war we could not fight,
So we crossed the border to keep out of sight.”“You men are known as radical sons,
You must be killers, you both carry guns.”
“I’m a night watchman, my friend peddles fish,
And he carries his gun when he’s got lots of cash.”Oh, pour me a glass of Germany’s beer,
Russia’s hot vodka, so strong and clear,
Pour me a glass of Palestine’s Hock,
Or just a moonshiner’s bucket of chock.Now, let me think, and let me see
How these two men were found guilty.
How a hundred and sixty witnesses passed by,
And the ones spoke for them was a hundred and five.Out of the rest, about fifty just guessed,
Out of the five that was put to the test
Only the story of one held true,
After a hundred and fifty nine got through.And on this one, uncertain and afraid,
She saw the carload of robbers, she said.
One year later, she remembered his face,
After seein’ his car for a second and a half.She told of his hand, an’ his gun, an’ his ears,
She told of his shirt, an’ the cut of his hair.
Remembered his eyes, an’ his lips, an’ his cheeks,
And Eva Splaine’s tale sent these men to the chair.I was right there in Boston the night that they died,
I never did see such sight in my life;
I thought the crowds would pull down the town,
An’ I was hopin’ they’d do it and change things around.I hoped they’d pull Judge Thayer on down
From off of his bench and they’d chase him around.
Hoped they’d run him around this stump
And stick him with a devil tails about ever’ jump.Wash this tequila down with gin
An’ a double straight shot of your black Virgin rum.
My ale bubbled out an’ my champagne is flat,
I hear the man comin’, I’m grabbin’ my hat.brief summary of the trial:
http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/sacvan.html
poem by edna st. vincent millay, quote from dukakis, debs and others: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAsacco.htm
in depth look at the trial:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/SaccoV/SaccoV.htm
song lyrics and news article from time and atlantic monthly
dated 1927: http://www.geocities.com/Nashville/3448/sacco.htmlPosted by tm on from dedham jail 08/23 at 07:00 PMA really wonderful post, TM, and wonderful links. Yes, it often seems that to be an anarchist is one of the greatest crimes on all of the earth. It is probably so, because, to declare openly that truly astonishing Idea - the Idea that ordinary men and women need no government, need no masters, need no “betters,” need no experts or giant “daddy-mommys” to direct and oversee their daily lives -
this Towering Idea and ideal is among the most frightening thoughts of all, to those who bleed us and feed and bathe in our blood, and then condemn us for the crime of bleeding.
We need no sheep herders, no matter how benevolent or wise - we, ourselves were born to master and govern ourselves, to determine our own ways, our own methods, our own truths. Each man and each woman may himself or herself be a truth -solemn and certain and complete. We need no ministers and mediators to determine truth and justice and joy on our “behalf.” We all know enough, on our own and in our own way, to laugh when we feel joy and to cry when we feel pain.
How odd and how terrible that we need to be told this truth… Thanks, TM.James - if my wife and I are ever able ( Ah, yes, it’s the money… ) to get down that way, I promise, we’ll come to see you. If you’re ever out this way, I promise to be a good host and a happy host.
A place where many people are happy seems almost too sweet to imagine. Happiness itself, I often think, is itself a virtue - like honesty, courage, compassion, love of one’s neighbors… It’s like a miracle drug which can cure almost anything, if there’s enough of it available. One day, perhaps, we’ll sit in a cafe and laugh and laugh the day away, just because we can.
Thanks much, James.
- joePosted by joe on from Oregon 08/23 at 09:10 PMI know it’s not Storytelling Saturday, but…
I borrowed a car today and drove up to Bear Mountain State Park--2 hours north of NYC and sandwiched between the unfortunately named Indian Point nuclear power plant and the West Point Military Academy. The 1-year-old VW gently sipped about a gallon of fuel for every thirty miles we drove. The fuel was purchased with the blood of Casey Sheehan, his killed and maimed comrades, and their supposed enemies amongst the Iraqi people either trying to lead “normal lives” under foreign occupation or those attempting to liberate it from pseudo-liberators. I kept noticing--as I have these three weeks I’ve spent in the supposed liberal Northeast USA--the yellow “support our troops” stickers in the shape of ribbons stuck to the back of cars. I did not--have not--seen a single bumper sticker, poster, grafitto, or any other publicly displayed statement of solidarity with the Iraqi people desiring the freedom of self-determination or in favor of the quick and safe return of the US soldiers wrongly despatched to Iraq on false pretenses.
On the trail about a third of the way up Bear Mountain itself we noticed a graffito--white spraypaint on what I suppose were innocent rocks: “SAPPORT OUR TROOPS. GOD BLESS” [sic], which we did our best to cover with pebbles in the shape of a peace sign. Why not?
If the War, and war, give you a hard-on you sure as hell slap a pseudo-patriotic slogan on the back of your truck, but if the whole project makes you literally sick to your stomach there is no guarantee you’re going to let everyone know. So the moral of the story, I guess, is that the Sheehan quote James brought up earlier bears (no pun intended) repeating:
“If you fall on the side that is pro-George and pro-war, you get your ass over to Iraq, and take the place of somebody who wants to come home. And if you fall on the side that is against this war and against George Bush, stand up and speak out.”
Cindy is my hero for saying that, and for acting on it. And a little argument about where to have dinner notwithstanding, I had a very nice birthday indeed.
Posted by Keir on from New York, momentarily 08/23 at 11:24 PMIf Kerry would have won, the right wing media would have hung Iraq around his neck like a millstone. Every car bomb would be fuel to beat up President Kerry between TV and radio commercials. This would be Kerry’s losing war. The right would set up a camp at Kerry’s vacation place drumming a constant rhythm of quagmire, troop death and public monies wasted.
But Kerry lost so nevermind.
Posted by Krist From Washington State on from Washington 08/23 at 11:38 PMHappy Birthday, Keir -
It’s strange, isn’t it, that it generally seems so hard to find any evidence of dissent out there.
The great Elite dis-information machines keep churning out great mounds of foul matter and the public keeps on swallowing. Somehow, we have to find a way to forgive, even “love” them, for they are “our” people. We have to find a way to embrace them even as they stagger us with their blindness and apathy… Well, maybe your peace sign will jolt a few hikers from their slumbers, you never know. Every good intention must have some positive effect somewhere, somehow. The whole world wishes you a happy birthday, Keir… they’re just not aware of their good wishes.Krist, my neighbor to the north, you’re probably right about Kerry. But Kerry’s platform was that he’d kick ass even more efficiently and effectively than Bush. If you’ll “step back” a few paces and look at both parties, you might well notice that neither of them represent either you or me or Keir or James or any of us. The system of government in effect in the US works for the rich and powerful - and against the interests of people like us. If you just take a few moments out of your day and ask yourself what either party has done for you - ever - I think you’ll see this is true. Well, anyway, give it a try and let us know what you conclude. Take care, Krist.
- joePosted by joe on from Oregon 08/24 at 03:05 AMJoe, thanks for the wishes. You said: “Somehow, we have to find a way to forgive, even “love” [the Elite], for they are “our” people. We have to find a way to embrace them even as they stagger us with their blindness and apathy… “
I assume you are being sarcastic in that way Chomsky often is, which I myself try to avoid, as there’s no guarantee of being understood. I do not think we have to forgive, love or embrace sociopathic thugs, whether we see them as architects and initiators of murderous policies or willing participants.
I’m not sure about this, but I think I can hold the Bush Administration accountable for the policies that led to Casey Sheehan’s death, while still questioning why Casey didn’t walk like Kevin Benderman or hole up in Crawford with his mother two years ago. (I’m not calling Casey a thug, but--unfortunately--a willing participant. Ward Churchill might agree.)
Kundera once wrote: “Hate traps us by binding us too close to our enemies”. Maybe so, but we’re trapped in a poisoned world anyway, so I think we need to have the conviction to hate the deplorable while embracing what’s positive. Arundhati Roy has an interesting take on this: shame them; render them obsolete.
Posted by Keir on from New York, momentarily 08/24 at 10:09 AMHi Keir.
I think you misunderstood Joe in the above post. If I read him correctly, he is not talking about forgiving and loving the Elite. He’s referring to forgiving and loving the generally blind, apathetic public[“‘our’ people"]. He describes being staggered by the fact that so many people out there are swallowing the “foul mounds of dis-information” that the Elite machines are churning out to them, and I get the sense he feels that if we embrace them despite their blindness and apathy, we may be able to get through to them. I think he felt your peace sign up on the mountainside was an excellent example of finding a gentle means to awaken a generally sleeping public. I’m sure he’ll add his clarification presently, but that’s my take on his post.
Hope you had a happy b’day!BTW, I love this site, Mickey Z. It’s an amazing piece of work! I wish you and your whole family well through your Mother’s treatment. I’m sure it’s a very difficult time. . .
-bc
Posted by bc on from 08/24 at 01:07 PMRight you are, BC. Thanks for calling me on it. Joe: sorry for reading you wrong. The point stands, though, I hope. As for the blind and apathetic among us non-elites (and I’m not pretending I haven’t benefitted greatly from being brought up healthy, white, middle class, and male) the question then is: when is enough enough? The peace sign on the rocks (shameless self-promotion: you can view a photo at http://www.keirneuringer.blogspot.com) was a way of covering up a bit of war’s unsightly residue. When are we going to be first? Not just the blind and apathetic, but people who really do care are so afraid to look out of place they can’t bring themselves to say “peace” out loud.
Posted by Keir on from New York, momentarily 08/24 at 01:39 PMHi Keir - yes, I was refering to us peasants, though the piece was not well worded. Your reading was fine, my writing was not. And thank you for your note, BC, and welcome. Yes, Mickey has created a wonderful atmosphere, here… He allows all of us to be who we are, without the condescension or rancor so often found on “similar” sites.
I don’t know how to consider the Elites, Keir. I genuinely despise what they’re doing. I try not to despise them - because I don’t know where that will lead me. Thats just a personal, subjective choice, of course, if it’s a choice at all.
(I didn’t really “choose” to be a radical - I just, sort of, “am” one, by nature, it seems. I didn’t really choose to see government as universally bogus, the conclusion just happened to me, a long, long time ago, as I was looking around and wondering and pondering… Someone else might have sifted through the same images and evidence and come to the conclusion that, with some tinkering and tweaking, government can be “repaired.” UGH.)
The Elites are the Aristocracy, though, in theory, Aristocracies have been abandoned in most “modern” societies. Aristocracies date back to pre-history, or so it seems. They have lots of experience overcomming obstacles to their continued exercise of power over the peasantry. Their main problem, I’d guess, is that they are very few and we are very many. Thus, for thousands of years, their primary task has been to divide us into various groups which despise and fear each other “onto death.” While we drown in our hatred and fear, they sip their Merlot and gaze out at vast landscapes of wealth and power.
The Elites are the masters of rage and hatred and fear. They seem to have a profound understanding of these emotions. They consistently “fine tune” our negative emotions to achieve the desired effect. There is a certain “distance,” a certain cool, calculating detachment to their manipulations of these basic emotions. This cool, calculating detachment is, to my mind, their greatest edge.
It can be argued, quite effectively, I think, that our hatred of the Elites is important. Many say that it motivates us, fires our creativity and energies and, probably, frightens the Elites. Sure.
I’d argue that few people are masters of their own most passionate and violent emotions. It’s like letting your clothes and hair catch fire while claiming to be in control of the flames. I don’t buy it. I see what they do, and it often causes me to feel almost unimaginable pain. I can use that pain in a variety of ways, and allowing it to turn into hatred and rage toward specific people seems a less than optimal use of all that energy.
(Gotta run away for a bit. More soon, I hope. Thanks for listening.) - joePosted by joe on from Oregon 08/24 at 04:10 PMBy the phrase, “I see what they do, and it often...” I mean to say: “I see what the Elites do and...” Sorry.
I just wanted to add that I think that hating people somehow weakens and confuses those who hate. I think that hating ideas and behaviors is not the same thing, at all.
A couple of months ago, I followed a link to “In These Times,” magazine. I read an article there, and clicked on the comments section. I found, already in progress, a passionate discussion about how best to “revitalize” the apparently moribund Democratic party. I stepped in and began by saying that “I offer no disrespect with these remarks...” and said that, perhaps they might consider some additional facts before trusting their lives, and the lives of their kids and grandkids to the Democrats. I went on to list the approximate numbers of innocent civillians murdered by Democratic administrations, around the world, since FDR.
When I’d finished, I thought - wow, that’s irrefutable, just facts, little blab. I wonder what they’ll say?
Well, they hammered me. They called me every name imaginable. They offered hatred and rage. There was no real attempt to refute or explain what I’d sited - there was just rage at me.
Their rage blinded them to the fact that they were in the process, with these discussions, of acting AGAINST their own best interests. Their rage turned them into screaming children: “I just want to play out in the street! I will NOT get hit by a car! I hate you!”
This same process is evident everywhere. A co-worker gets angry with the boss, but can’t take a swipe at management without risking the loss of employment. So, what happens? Take a swipe or two at a co-worker, instead. The rage is there, and it needs to come out at someone. I’ve seen it even within my family. My wife and I get very angry at each other, so we come very close to a savage argument, only to back away as we realize the consequences of such a confrontation. Instead, usually within a few minutes, one or both of us finds significant fault with something one or more of the kids is doing, and we angrily take them to task. ( An example of crummy parenting, I admit, but it sometimes happens.)Anger against ideas and behaviors can more easily be translated into useful action than anger against an individual or individuals. My next-door neighbor once decided that I should set aside a portion of my yard so that he could drive through it, from time to time, to get access to the rear of his property. His property was “too nice” to drive across, whereas mine was “undeveloped.” He even spoke to my wife about wanting to approach “authorities,” to secure a legal right to my yard. Well, I don’t much care about the yard but his approach really pissed me off. I thought: “You twerp, I’ll tear your head off and shove it up your ass!” Fortunately, he was no where around until this initial anger blew by. When I finally spoke to him, I was calm enough to focus on the idea, rather than the man, and the dispute ended quickly and to our mutual satisfaction… My anger at the proposition took me out there to discuss the matter with him. My lack of hatred or rage - toward him - allowed me to proceed thoughtfully and carefully.
Well, this is my take on things, generally.
What do you guyz think?
-joePosted by joe on from Oregon 08/24 at 05:24 PMIt’s absolutely awesome to see the discussions carrying on here. With apologies to the Iron Horse, I’m the luckiest blogger on the face of the earth. Thanks, all.
Joe: I love your last post. As someone with serious juvenile delinquent roots, it was a crucial lesson for me to tone down the reactions and start trying responses instead.
Happy, B’day, Keir.
BC: thanks for the kind words. Hope to see you here again and please spread the word.
Texas update: There’s no one stronger than my Mom.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Lone Star State 08/24 at 06:33 PMHey, Mickey - real good to hear from you. And, very good to hear about your mother.
Here in Southern Oregon, we’ve set up “Camp Mom.”
We demand the invaders completely withdraw from Mickey’s Mom, immediately.Be well, Sir, and our best to your mother…
Posted by joe on from Oregon 08/24 at 08:37 PMAs an addenda to our conversation about whether to “hate” or not, I’ve been reading around a bit this evening. I thought I’d offer one more post, as I’m already well beyond verbose and into some strange new land…
Dave Dellinger died in 2004, one of the most influential and respected American radicals of the 20th century. His autobiography is called: “From Yale to Jail.”
Before WWII, almost everyone supported our entry into the war, even most Leftists. Dellinger opposed the war, and decided against requesting conscientious objector status or a relegious exemption because he was living in Harlem at the time, and saw many poor black males being drafted into the military. He felt it would be cowardly to just choose to opt out, when so many others could not. Thus, he refused to register for the draft. He was arrested and sent to federal prison in Conneticut. While in prison he spoke out against racial segregation and racial antagonism and was quickly labeled a troublemaker and was often sent to “the hole.” Some people were broken in this solitary confinement, but while there, Dellinger realized that all men and women, everywhere were his family, and that he loved everyone. He never lost this realization.He served a year. Two years later, he was arrested again in a demonstration at the Capital, in 1943, and was again sent to prison, this time for two years. His entire life was like this. He just would not back down, and absolutely refused to hate - anyone. This guy had serious stones.
He started or helped organize a variety of dissident newspapers over the years. In one of those first papers, he wrote eloquently about his opposition to the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, calling it an act of inconceivable treachery.
He consistently spoke out and wrote about the insanity of racism.
He was an early opponent of the Vietnam war, and was arrested again, in 1965, with a group of SDS students at another anti-war demonstration. He was threatened with charges of treason. He still didn’t back down, but the charges were dropped when all of the other arrested protesters refused to leave the jail unless Dellinger was allowed to leave with them.He organized various trips to Vietnam where he sometimes was able to arrange for the release of some American prisoners. He met with Ho Chi Minh (who asked Dellinger about Harlem! Ho had lived in Brooklyn for a while, after WWI, and had been astonished by America’s racism) and he talked with ordinary Vietnamese and Vietnamese soldiers.
In 1968, he was arrested at the great demonstrations in Chicago, and was tried as a member of the legendary Chicago 8.
He never relented, throughout his whole life. Even at the age of 85, he would get up in the middle of the night to get a ride to a demonstration in a distant city. Also at 85, some friends organized a party to celebrate his life. Hundreds came to join him, including Howard Zinn and Staughton Lynd. Later that year he wrote this poem:
“I love everyone,
even those who
disagree with me.
I love everyone,
even those who
agree with me.
I love everyone,
rich and poor,
and I love everyone
of different races,
including people
who are indigenous,
wherever they live,
in this country
or elsewhere.
I love everyone,
whatever religion they are,
and atheists too.
People who contemplate,
wherever it leads them.
I love everyone,
both in my heart
and in my daily life.”He died at the age of 88, in Vermont.
Posted by joe on from Oregon 08/25 at 03:23 AMThat’s a wonderful Kundera quote, which book is it from? I’d been thinking about this and what Joe said a lot and I feel that in a dispute or conflict it doesn’t matter whether you’re right or wrong, it’s the emotion you expend on it keeps you locked in with it. So many arguments between friends or couples seem to me each person just playing out a prerecorded sequence, like this negative emotion generator, and when in one of these once I catch myself at it, conflicts are a lot easier to solve or simply have melt from me when I take a nonchalant attitude towards them. I’m not advocating completely passive behaviour, rather I find myself less open to manipulation (having my buttons pushed, as we put it so nicely) when I’m pouring less into the emotion than into the evaluation of the situation. Attempts by the establishment to get people to choose one thing or the other (right/left, withus/againstus, eastern/western culture) look more hamfisted and unappealing by the day, so for me it’s a refusal to be polarised.
Joe, to answer your question on the last topic, I had been writing short stories for my last few years in Ireland and wanted somewhere new to start work on my first novel in 2003. I don’t have a grant or anything like like that, and I’m finding Spain to be perfect for working on it with as little interference as possible from the financegathering part of it, with ample opportunity to play with a band too. I have not been to Ireland in two years and don’t plan on living there again but am going back for December holidays and quite looking forward to it. Thanks for asking.
Posted by Owen on from Barcelona 08/25 at 07:06 AMI believe the Kundera quote is from either Immortality or The Joke. Milan Kundera is eminently quotable, but I stopped reading him because I couldn’t tell his books apart anymore. I cherish his commentary on politics and human relations, but I got tired of reading about the same love affairs over and over.
Posted by Keir on from New York, momentarily 08/25 at 10:16 AMJoe, I loved reading about Dellinger...I am ashamed to say that I knew little to nothing about him.
I was wondering if I could post the comment on my blog (no offense taken if you say no) ... the fight against racism and war are both close to me heart and I think that one of the finest lessons to be learned is to love instead of hate.
Dellinger seemed to be a pretty amazing human being.
Posted by James on from Puerto Rico 08/25 at 12:57 PMHi everyone -
Thanks much for your posts. I was beginning to believe that I’d blabbed so much that people waiting to post had passed out from exhaustion.
I’ve been trying to help out a bit, while Mickey is away, but I fear I’ve been overdoing a bit.
This blogging stuff is odd. I write a lot during the day, hoping to be thoughtful and sincere, yet I often go to bed feeling like a fool.James -
Oh, yes, please use this stuff. I think we might say of Dellinger, what Napolean said of Goethe: “This… is a Man.” I knew of his activities in the Chicago 8 trial, but otherwise, I, too, knew nothing. I recently read about his outspoken opposition to the Nuclear attacks on Japan, and decided to follow up. He was a “rich” boy - we just never know where those Huge Hearts will come from. I, too, have never been able to come to grips with racism - it has torn at my very core, throughout my whole life. I’ve lived in lots of VERY tough Black neighborhoods, in which I was consistently treated with respect, and in which no one EVER messed with me. Years ago, I fell in love with Huey Newton. An astonishing guy. His life story keeps “eating” at me…Owen - your post is wonderfully insightful. These are, I would suppose, the insights of a true artist. ( I hear some of those Irish boys can really write! ) I wish you well with the writing of your book. Thanks for your comments. And, again, I truly apologize for missing your post, that night. Well, maybe I’m gettin’ old: “I grow old, I grow old, I shall wear the bottoms of my trowsers rolled.” ( Ever read: “At Swim, Two Birds?” )
Keir - I’ve read portions of “ - Lightness of Being.” I thought he was an impressive wordsmith. Your remarks remind me of my experiences with Henry James. A tremendous wordsmith, but after reading novellas and novels and short stories, I came away with the impression that, beneath his huge talent and intellect, he really did not feel passionately about much of anything. He was writing - because he could, and not because he had something he desperately wished to say…
Again, thanks everyone, for posting. Here, I’ll shut up now. You guyz - fill up the board…Posted by joe on from Oregon 08/25 at 02:14 PMThanks, Joe.
Do me a favor, don’t stop posting, today or any other day. I truly enjoy your comments and I need some thoughtful interaction to distract me from work.
Posted by James on from Puerto Rico 08/25 at 02:39 PMThanks again, Joe. Here’s the post:
http://wdthu.blogspot.com/2005/08/dellinger-love-not-hate.html
Posted by James on from Puerto Rico 08/25 at 02:58 PMJoe, don’t get me wrong: Kundera is definitely worth reading, and--unlike Henry James (I guess, I’ve never read)--has plenty to say. Try “The Joke”, his first novel, I believe, which is an incredible take-down of the bureaucratic communism he experienced in Czechoslovakia in the 1950’s and ‘60’s. I just stopped reading him after finishing seven books or so. Enough!
Posted by Keir on from New York, momentarily 08/25 at 03:03 PMI’ve read a few chapters of At Swim Two Birds, just finished the Dalkey Archive which is a scifi/theological rant set mostly in bars around the south of Dublin where I used to live, when I return from my holidays (I’m in the Pyrenees at the moment) I’m going to resume it.
Of Kundera I’ve read 4 or 5, the last ones being Farewell Waltz and Slowness (enjoyed both), and Book Of Laughter and Forgetting is a good un (too, reading Rabelais is interesting to see where he gets his bawdy intellectual schtick from). Whenever I hear the securocrats clamouring for an ID card scheme the first thing comes to me is I’d love to put them in a room with Kundera or Paul Auster.Posted by Owen on from Barcelona 08/25 at 03:45 PMA quiet day, here in our Kozy Korner.
Keir, and Owen - I hope to take a second look at Mr. Kundera. Indeed, Keir, 7 books is sufficient. The first Chomsky book I ever read was “The Chomsky Reader.” I was awed, of course, but it was like reading several Chomsky books at once. When I was finished, people asked me what I would read next, expecting, I’m sure, another Chomsky title. Instead, I said: “I don’t know - maybe some Science Fiction, or some Steven King, or an old Zap Comic.”I couldn’t finish “At Swim...,” Owen. O’Brian is one of the most astonishing writers I’ve ever encountered, but he seemed to have very little, if anything at all, to say. I used to envision him sipping pints and knocking out paragraph after paragraph of painfully perfect prose, consistently roaring with laughter at the sweet absurdity of it all.
BTW - Mainstream TV is starting to air stories critical of our “security methods” in Iraq, and the Washington Post, Sunday, published a piece which, quite cogently, argued for our immediate withdrawal of our troops. Obviously, something has happened.
I wish I could be pleased by these developments. Instead, I feel we’re all being manipulated, once again. We’re like one of those moog-synthesizers: push one button and you hear guitar chords; push another button and you hear Brazilian Rhythms, another button produces trumpets and blaring brass… They direct our energies and interests and passions with relative ease, as if we’re hollow, inanimate instruments…I have no idea what our Masters are up to, now, but it can’t possibly add up to our benefit. I don’t suppose it’s necessary to know what they intend. It is essential, however, to realize that nothing - quite literally nothing, is what it seems to be. And, those developments which, at first glance, seem to be in our best interest, ought to give us greatest pause. We ought to stop short, sniff the wind, listen intently, scan the environment. Wherever they seek to lead us, it will be against our best interest to consent to go. Whatever they wish to tell us, it will be a lie.
While I hope never to hate them, I want to be realistic: Government - and the corporations which compose it, like the media - is organized crime. These people murder and torture and torment and terrorize for profit. When thugs and murderers bring an evening meal toward the table, we ought to be already up on our feet, and on our way out of the restaurant - and if they’re bringing a delicious desert, we ought to move all the more quickly.
Posted by joe on from Oregon 08/26 at 03:46 AMRight on, Joe. I do feel, however, that there is a mass-ive change happening (though slowly) throughout the regular citizens of the US. I know that protests/marches/demonstrations seem to have lost their effectiveness in the past few decades, but I have some hope for Sept. 24th in Washington. Maybe it will be too big to ignore.
Posted by James on from Puerto Rico 08/26 at 07:50 AMJoe: that is some seriously pessimistic thinking there. Although the “they” to whom you refer haven’t given us reason to think otherwise, we’ve got to do it anyway--on our own terms. What’s good is good, and if media (the Washington Post in this case) are making a case for ending our occupation in the same week Donny Pentagon (a name bestowed by Paul Street) has decided to send more boys and girls to kill and maim and be killed and maimed, I’m not going to call it what it’s not. Because it is, in fact, good to have this momentary, unlikely ally in a the mainstream press.
I don’t think you’re wrong about government-as-organized-crime, but I do think we can be pleased just enough to have energy to keep going. And: moog synthesizers are actually pretty complex. More about twisting dials than pushing buttons, and you never really know what’s going to happen, and the results are usually stunning (if you’re into that sort of thing), and if we are being manipulated, we can be sure that the operating instructions are manipulators have don’t account for at least some of us. Right?
Posted by Keir on from New York, momentarily 08/26 at 08:33 AMRemember that speech in 91 Bush.01 gave about laying the spectre of Vietnam to rest beneath the sands of Iraq? I’d always wondered what he meant by that and a couple of weeks ago it struck me he was saying the massive public support to withdraw from Vietnam and subsequent cynicism about foreign policy, an elites worst nightmare, had finally been subverted by gaining support for a massive Iraqi landwar after that incubator scam Hill and Knowlson pulled off. And about the media’s recent shift in outlook, perhaps they realised the American public wasn’t yet softened up enough for the ####-you approach they’d been taking. I’m glad there are stories about ending this massacre reaching a wider audience but the mainstream (i.e. military) media has been locked down for so long now that there’s a broader reason for this change in tack I can feel - the Pentagon (along with British/French/Spanish intelligence) is a nest of snakes and when it starts telling you what you want to hear, that means keep an extra set of antennae in the air.
Posted by Owen on from Barcelona 08/26 at 10:07 AMP.S. Peace to Robert Moog who died the other day.
Posted by Owen on from Barcelona 08/26 at 10:11 AMHi Guys - Thanks much for your input.
(This story may be a quite “controversial” but I’ll tell it, anyway.
Controversies are conversations, after all…)Almost 30 years ago, I applied for a job as a psych-tech, working with pre-teen kids in a psych unit in San Francisco. I’d only recently arrived in the City, and I was almost broke. Instead, I was hired to work in a locked unit for teens. I almost balked, but I talked with some of the guys who worked there, and they assured me that they were - almost all - committed to these kids.
They were passionately opposed to violence or to deliberately demeaning or hurting the kids. We were, they argued, the only folks who could assure the kids a safe, sane, hopefully “useful” stay in this strange, prison like environment. Some of the guys were working their way through nursing school. Some were working on advanced degrees in psychology or in sociology. Almost all were big and capable of remaining calm in VERY stressful situations.Well, I took the job. Early on, I learned that diffusing the frustration and rage among the kids who stayed there was a very difficult and sometimes very scary task. Some of the kids really were crazy. Some were just violent because they lived in a very violent world. (But, believe me, some were really violent.) Some were “crazy” because they had been locked in the psych unit. Being locked in was making them crazy, and the doctors would want to “treat them”!
Sometimes you’d find yourself “cornered” by a small group of two or three guys who happened to be in the same street-gang, outside. They’d say: “Hey, Staff! Look who’s all alone with three bad boys!” And I’d think, wow, this could get intense. But, usually within moments, the kids would look behind me, maybe off to the right. Then, they’d look behind me, but off to the left. When I felt comfortable looking away from the kids, I’d peek and see two or three or four of the guys I worked with. They’d be just standing around, usually separately, 15 or 20 feet away. One guy might be reading a paper. Another might be just quietly leaning against the wall, looking at the ceiling. Another might be tying his shoes. The kids would slowly back up, and we could sit and talk with them, rather than have a battle, or a riot.
One kid with whom I worked closely for several weeks would say: “Hey, man. Every time I get really mad and want to kick somebody’s ass, I look around and suddenly a bunch of you guys are just there - just standing around, by yourselves, looking nonchalant. Every time!
What’s with this looking nonchalant stuff!?”Many times I felt certain I was about to get hammered, only to see the kids looking behind me. Many times, I was one of the guys the kids looked toward, as they confronted one of the other guys. I kept a couple of magazines laying around, which I’d grab and leaf through as I waited and watched - just being nonchalant.
Now, I’m not saying it was a job I’d take again. I have mixed feelings about the existence of such places. Although, if the unit had not been there ( it was, at the time, the only locked adolescent unit in S.F. ) the kids would have been taken directly to juvi or to jail. On the other hand, it was not a good place, generally, for most of them. Locking kids up is a bad idea, in my book. But, anyway, I mention it because of how we all looked out for each other, how we all stood up for each other, albeit quietly and cautiously. Sometimes the situations we got through were so frightening, so dangerous, that I couldn’t believe we’d pulled it off. To a TINY extent, I can see how combat soldiers “bond,” by helping each other get through tough times, together.
I had a whole different idea to post but -
sometimes the people here, you guyz, remind me of those guys…(More in a bit. Thanks for listening.)
Posted by joe on from Oregon 08/26 at 03:24 PMHi Everybody, Sorry to be off topic but I found a real gem on the web today. The link is below.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/snider1.htmlPosted by rosemarie jackowski on from crossing the line 08/26 at 05:09 PMHi again -
(Hi Rosemarie. I’ll check out the link this evening. Thanks much)Now, to the content of your posts, rather than the content of your character: ( to paraphrase Dr. King…)
When I posted last night, I’d just finished rereading Howard Zinn. (Is Howard an amazing scholar / guy, or what!?) He was talking about the “American” colonies in the late 1600’s, early 1700’s, long before
the Declaration of Independence. He said that, during that period, Black slaves, and white indentured servants, or very poor whites,
got on very, very well together. There is almost no record of disagreements between the two groups, way back then, based on racism.(I may have written a similar post some time ago. I’ve been studying this period, and it has had a profound effect upon my thinking, of late.)
Poor whites and black slaves considered themselves “brothers” in despair, as it were. They recognized that they were - all - living beneath the boot-soles of power and wealth, and that they had almost everything in common. Race, essentially, was seen as insignificant. When “runaway” slaves and servants were eventually caught, they were often found, still together. They helped each other, fought for each other, made love and had children together, drank and partied and laughed together. An interesting picture, eh? - given that we’ve been led to believe that the races
“just naturally”
distrust and dislike each other.Now, it seems that the Elites of the day already had a profound understanding about how to maintain their positions of power. They knew, because they were members of the “hereditary aristocracy.” For many centuries, their ancestors had practiced the fine, ancient art of - maintaining power. They knew that the common people, the great herd, could be controlled only if they were subdivided into various antagonistic groupings.
So, the colonial Elite divided the population by manufacturing and then enhancing distrust and dislike between various groupings of commoners. They saw slaves and poor whites running from their masters, into the “Indian” territories. They feared an alliance between poor whites, black slaves, and Indians, so they bribed or pressured or threatened Indians to return the runaways to “respectable” white society. They feared that various groups of Indians would unite against them, so they “enhanced” the generally already existent divisions between tribes and native alliances.
Their greatest fear, however, was that poor whites would ally themselves with black slaves. Thus, they instituted measures to see to it that this would NEVER happen. First, in Virginia, they passed a law that said that whites were, in all cases, superior to blacks. Then, various legislatures passed laws which gave white servants, who had completed their servitude, great advantages over black slaves. They received money, a small plot of land, some food, and a gun. Thus, poor whites now had something to loose, and a reason to ally themselves with the Elites. Thereafter, as racism as we know it, began to rear its head, the Elites coaxed it along, increasing racial fears and antagonisms, until, 200 years later, we believe it’s the natural order of things.
So, poor whites were given what seemed to be “substantial gifts,” from the Elites. Yet, acceptance of these “gifts” was not really in the best interest of poor whites. They received short term comfort in exchange for generation after generation of servitude to their masters. They received a meal, yet were forced to forever go hungry for the real stuff - freedom and self reliance. It was in this context that I thought about the “good news” regarding the war, and posted…
Posted by joe on from Oregon 08/26 at 07:39 PMVery interesting link, Rosemarie. I think about this quite a lot, and have tended of late to be sympathetic to the troops, mainly because I so strongly and clearly detest their masters. I remember in early 2002 making a statement holding “the troops” (Americans in Afghanistan, Israelis in Palestine) responsible for their actions. Everyone who heard me--close friends, some of whom had been in the Israeli army--reacted passionately against me, and I haven’t pressed the issue in my writing or talking since then. As I’ve mentioned here before, it’s much easier to get the next-door neighbor as an ally for troop withdrawal (for “peace") if said neighbor’s sense of “patriotism” (whatever that is) is left intact. But yes, I suppose soldiers, their superiors, the Bush Administration and the whole of Congress are culpable for these crimes committed in our name. Where does the culpability end? It’s our country, our tax dollars and so on. Why are we so out of control?
Posted by Keir on from New York, momentarily 08/26 at 11:20 PMAn interesting article, Rosemarie. Yet, I’d like to reply for a moment to the guy who wrote it. I bet you could drive around parts of Bed-Stuy or areas of the South Bronx or East Oakland or a wide variety of white and black ghettos and search for a long time before you’d find even a single teenager who had heard the word: Libertarian.
The very concept of Anarchy, when introduced into the very poor, miserable areas of pre-civil war Spain, completely astonished people who heard it. Some were so overwhelmed that their lives changed forever after. Why? It’s a simple concept that human beings can take care of themselves and do not require government.They had to be told; they had to be educated. They simply never “thought it,” seriously, on their own.
I’ve spent quite a bit of time in Castle Hill, in the Bronx. I assume it’s the “South” Bronx. I’ve also spent lots of time in East Oakland, and in some odd, very poor “Appalachian” areas out in Schoharie, New York, where the people lived in small, boxy wooden shacks with dirt floors. In all three places, I was sometimes so unnerved and frightened that I wanted to curl up into a fetal position and rock back and forth, like a child. I’ve seen people beaten into unconsciousness just for looking at someone for too long. I’ve seen savage fights begin because someone was wearing the wrong color, or the wrong school logo. I’ve seen lots of people beaten badly just because they weren’t tough enough to fight back. I’ve seen people carrying shot-guns, wandering the streets, looking for “that bastard I was just fighting with...”
In some of these areas, whole families live in their cars. Abandoned children live in some little nook in the basement of a half abandoned building. No one hunts them down or struggles mightily to save them. People live in abandoned trucks, out in the woods, or in “tree forts,” or old, crumbling, long-abandoned shacks.
In East Oakland, a guy said to me: “You have to get a gun, man. You can’t protect yourself, otherwise. My apartment got robbed twice, so I put bars on the window. I came home one night, and they’d kicked in the whole damed wall of my bedroom, and stole even more of my stuff.”In Schoharie, relatively young boys could get you some serious whisky or alcohol, and had already been drunk too many times to even offer a “count.” Some of the young girls, one young man told us, “knew how to get real nice things for themselves. Know what I mean...?”
In the Bronx and in Queens and East Oakland you could buy heroin or crack from very young boys who would also tell you to “stay away from them crack hos - they got the syph.”Many of the articles I’ve read, seem to say that lots and lots of kids who enter the military leave just such places as I’ve described here. Why their concepts of peace and justice and non-violent resistance are so rudimentary, so unsophisticated, is certainly a mystery to me.
Posted by joe on from Oregon 08/27 at 02:55 AMKeir and Joe, Great comments. I understand your using the horrendous living condidtions and the lack of information to sort of justify why some people join the military. I really get that. I, too, was brain-washed in my early years. It took till I was well into adulthood and had some very special life lessons, to start to see the light. I am still trying to overcome the effects of the indoctrination of my youthful years. All of that being said, I don’t think that lack of truthful information justifies what the military does. It explains but does not justify it. The argument that stupidity can excuse what the military does could be used to justify what Hitler did...or what Bush does. The one important fact for me is that George Bush never killed anyone. We, the bomb-makers, the arms dealers, the workers in factories that produce weapons, we who support the military, we are the ones who have made the slaughter possible.
Posted by rosemarie jackowski on from crossing the line 08/27 at 07:27 AMThere must be other ways out of the ghetto than becoming a murderer/active agent of imperialism. Joe, I’m aware that many don’t come that far in their thinking; I suppose that’s where a lot of left activity should be concentrated. I know that it isn’t. Bring down the elites, yes. That’s a relatively easy posture for the majority of leftists. But bring up the least fortunate, the masses: volumes have been written on why this would be counter to (certain) leftists’ goals.
Posted by Keir on from New York, momentarily 08/27 at 07:43 AMHere I am, arriving fashionaby late, with two comments. As to why the poor choose the military, let’s not forget the 4000 lb. elephant in the room: the oppressive propaganda we all face in the U.S. Alex Carey once said the three most important developments of the 20th century were the growth and spread of democracy, the growth and spread of corporate power, and the creation of corporate propaganda for protect corporate power from democracy.
Re: American soldiers, I offer the words of a former bomber plane pilot by the name of Howard Zinn:
“As dogma disintegrates, hope appears. Because it seems that human beings, whatever their backgrounds, are more open than we think, that their behavior cannot be confidently predicted from their past, that we are all creatures vulnerable to new thoughts, new attitudes. And while such vulnerability creates all sorts of possibilities, both good and bad, its very existence is exciting. It means that no human being should be written off, no change in thinking deemed impossible.”
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 08/27 at 07:55 AMI have a hard time with the author’s take on the troops in that article from Rosemarie’s link.Those joining the military, for the most part, are mere CHILDREN. They are lied to from the get-go. Ever see a recruiter in action? Their target: 16-, 17-, 18-, 19- year-olds. They usually approach them in groups, so as to encourage peer interaction, and further muddle an already confusing and scary process. It’s brilliant strategy, really. Perhaps Mr. Snipes at that tender age had some deep ability to sift through all the “bullsh*t” ever presented to him by the State, or his peers, or ...whomever. Maybe he was fully self-aware, and had some uncanny ability to resist even the appearance of what he was somehow already able to detect as evil. He’s leading us to believe he thinks he had (or would have...I wonder if he actually ever was approached by military recruiters as a teen) the intelligence, common sense, and even the courage to “just say no” when he was a teenager. He wasn’t confused, lazy, unsure of himself, scared, or anything remotely resembling a teenager. Amazing! What a very rare human he is indeed if Mr. Snipes were that evolved during those years. He goes on to opine that once the ignorant schmuck gets into the military and realizes the horror of it all, that this is the time -almost as if it’s a last chance to redeem oneself forever -to set oneself against the Establishment, lay down arms, and be willing to go to prison in order to stand up for what’s right. I’m assuming Mr. Snipes hasn’t been in the military, and hasn’t experienced the control it has over these children. It’s not about being an apologist for the troops. It’s about recognizing them for what they are: mere babies. I can’t support his all-or-nothing libertarian hype. We’re all evolving, and hopefully we can find a way to support each other, even- no ESPECIALLY- those that have been caught in their vulnerability: our troops.
I am as Anti-War as Mr. Snipes. I am anti-Government like Joe. I have the same dream as Rosemarie that the world will soon start to see the images of dead and maimed Iraqi babies and be horrified for the Iraqis enough to put a stop to this insanity. We have to feel others’ pain before we can begin to make changes. But I have to fall short of attacking our troops. I find it counter-productive.
-bcPosted by bc on from 08/27 at 08:57 AMHi Mickey, and very glad to see you back. As to your post: Absolutely RIGHT ON! Thanks for that wonderful Zinn quote.
I hope things are going well...glad to hear your mother is staying strong.
Posted by bc on from 08/27 at 09:09 AMIt’s very, very good to see you back, Mickey Z.
Hope your mother has finally triumphed.
And, I much agree with bc, a superb quote from the wise Mr. Zinn. There’s a light shining from his sage eyes…Posted by joe on from Oregon 08/27 at 05:45 PM
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