Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Tuesday, November 22, 2005
Mickey Z. interviews, action alerts, and Ward Churchill the poet?
Funny interview, Mick. I like the Ward poem. A lot.
A more detailed version of the latest checkpoint slaughter of an Iraq family, including three children:
“FIVE members of the same Iraqi family, three of them children under the age of 4, were shot dead yesterday when US troops opened fire on their minivan outside a military base, fearing a suicide car bomb attack.
The family were returning from a funeral in Balad to nearby Baquba, north of Baghdad, when they came across a patrol of US military vehicles forming a roadblock near the base.
“The soldiers started shooting at us from all over,” Ahmed Kamel al-Sawamara, 22, the driver, said at the hospital where the dead and three wounded were taken. “I slowed down and pulled off the road, but they continued firing. I saw my family killed, one after the other, and then the car caught fire. I dragged their bodies out.”The dead were two men and three children aged 1, 2 and 3.”
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 08:19 AMMelting Helheim Glacier in Greenland:
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 08:50 AMclick on picture to go to the article…
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 08:52 AMMornin’JOS. Great interview, Mickey. Now it is time to publish the sequel to 50 AR’s. You put a smile on my face this morning...Fidel AND Ward. What a treat!!! The RMJ Party, is that the Really More Justice Party? Does Churchill know how much support he has here at Mickey’s?
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/22 at 09:15 AMBlair talked Bush out of blowing up Al-Jazeera:
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 09:58 AMJOS: You’ve done it again. Check out today’s main post...at the bottom, okay?
RMJ: I’d love to do a sequel but that could only happen if the book sells well. Unlikely. As for Churchill, I don’t know if he ever stops by here. Maybe I can get word to Ward.
It’s pouring here in Astoria. I just heard the loudest, most sustained thunder strike I’ve ever heard in my life. For a few seconds, I was sure something got blown up.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 11/22 at 10:16 AMIt is raining here with SNOW predicted for later in the day. .....The US did bomb sites where journalists were known to be, several times. Each time the excuse was that they didn’t know that the “hotel” was where the journalists were living.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/22 at 10:25 AMHey Rosemarie, I just saw that you have a new essay up here: http://www.selvesandothers.com.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 11/22 at 11:13 AMMickey, I am eagerly waiting for the comments on my latest. I am sure to take some/a lot of criticism and expect to have a little fun with it. I have already prepared my rebuttal of “their” rebuttal.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/22 at 12:05 PMWell, that was nice of you Mick…
The boldness with which this Administration planned and executed illegal actions (and continues to plan and execute...) just shows how indoctrinated the country is, including the media. Un-fucking-believable.
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 12:05 PMEnjoyable interview, Mickey Z. Thanks. I wrote JF a letter once, asking him why he cared at all about the fate of the Dems. He wrote back and said: “Hey, it’s my schtick!”
I like the guy.Wonderful article, Rosemarie, kudos!
I want to ask that my name be removed from the lottery list, however. I will not run. And, if I “win,” I will not serve.JOS - It appears that glaciers all over the world are melting. In fact, every few days there seems to be a new revelation about more proof of global melt-down. The number of storms and the ferocity of storm-systems seems to be increasing. Everything points toward some sort of apocalyptic moment, just beyond the horizon.
Fortunately, the US government has remained calm.
Moreover, the new fall line-up of TV shows is now firmly established, and audiences are delighted!Posted by joe on from Oregon 11/22 at 12:08 PMI love it, RMJ! I lottery system for public office...I am serious, though...I mean it would be a VAST improvement over our current system. It would be a near certainty that everyone picked would be better qualified than those currently in office. I love this idea!
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 12:11 PMSorry Joe. Your name is on the top of the Lottery List. How does “President Joe” sound!
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/22 at 12:13 PMThanks JOS. For a very long time I thought that we would do better just by pointing at a name, any name, in the phone book. We certainly couldn’t do any worse than under the current system.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/22 at 12:17 PMSounds like a sit-com, eh JOS?
“This week, President Joe gets a visit from that wild guy from Venezuela, Hugo Chavez! Cheech Marin guest stars, as things get wild and wacky in the White House!”“hit”
Posted by joe on from Oregon 11/22 at 12:26 PMI liked your Churchill poem too, Rosemarie.
Excellent.Here’s another war tale, stolen from Chris Floyd.
“Thermobaric, or “fuel-air” weapons… form a cloud of volatile gases or finely powdered explosives. “This cloud is then ignited and the subsequent fireball sears the surrounding area while consuming the oxygen in this area. The lack of oxygen creates an enormous overpressure ... Personnel under the cloud are literally crushed to death. Outside the cloud area, the blast wave travels at some 3,000 metres per second ... As a result, a fuel-air explosive can have the effect of a tactical nuclear weapon without residual radiation ...”
They were used alot in Falluja, it seems, along with lots of White Phosphorous. Thank God we evacuated more than a dozen civilians from this bustling city before the battles began.Posted by joe on from Undisclosed Location 11/22 at 12:35 PMYeah, but imagine the damage you would do to State-run terrorism...it would immediately drop 90% the day you stepped into office.
As far as the sit-com goes, I’d like to see the episode where Bono comes to you to see if he can be Secretary of State and you tell him to stick to his day job…
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 12:36 PMThermobaric? Jesus H. Christ, Joe. What sick shit will military science think up next? A lot of military people praised how well these types of weapons “worked” in Fallujah. Do you think that is the only place they were used? Hell no.
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 12:40 PMHell no, is right, my friend.
I’ve been having a weird day. I think it’s because I’ve been reading Derrick Jenson. I’ve read lots of Chomsky and Zinn and some Z., and Blum and Cockburn-St. Clair, etc., etc., but this Jensen book makes me feel like I’m in the taxi-cab with Dan Akroyd in “Twilight Zone,” where he leans forward and says: “Hey, do you wanna see something REALLY scary?”
Jenson is just beating me up.
Here’s something I don’t know if I should share, or not. So --- here goes.
This is not for the faint of heart…
- Each year an estimated 20,000 Mexican children disappear, many for use as mules, to transport drugs - inside their bodies.
Others are taken for the harvest of their organs, to be transplanted into children in the US…
- Worldwide, entire economies have been founded specifically on the sexual trade in children.
- One hundred to eight hundred thousand Thai girls and boys work as prostitutes… Nearly all of them are enslaved or indentured. Many die of HIV.
- There are 1.5 to 2 million child prostitutes in India. ( Those in Bombay, for example, are held in cages…)
- Five hundred thousand child prostitutes work in Brazil. ( A child of 35 pounds is considered a prime size in many mining towns. )
- There are 200,000 child prostitutes in or from Nepal… most are kidnapped and sold… broken in through a series of rapes and beatings, then rented out up to 35 times a night…
- Between 100,000 - 300,000 children work in the sex trade in the US.
- At least a million new girls are forced into prostitution each year.
- A half-million children die every year of starvation.
- Eleven million die annually from easily treatable diseases. The WHO calls it a “silent genocide.”
- According to the CDC, in 1993, 614,000 children were physically abused, 300,000 were sexually abused, 507,000 were physically neglected… 565,000 of these kids were killed or seriously injured as a result… That’s just in the US.Jensen says: “Do we value children? The answer, of course, is yes. One to two dollars a ####, unless we happen to be in the Phillipines, where it costs 6 dollars to have sex with a 6 year old.”
And - he concludes the section:
“If we did not hate children, we would not cause or even allow them to be destroyed by any of these means. And if we do not love even our children, what, precisely, can we truly say we love?”Posted by joe on from Oregon 11/22 at 01:06 PMThat is a powerful book, Joe...I read it a while back. Did you know that Jensen was highly influenced by Daniel Quinn. I am always pushing that guy, I know.
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 01:11 PMMZ and JF (if he’s around): nice interview. There could be worse things than being compared to Howard Zinn, huh? I loved this bit…
MZ: “Hey, Paul Revere didn’t tell folks what to do when he yelled, “The British are coming.” Sometimes, the first and most important step is a wake-up call.”
...Chomsky has often articulated something similar. He says his US audiences always ask “what can I do” but that outside of the US, people don’t ask, because they are already doing it.
Rosemarie: I like the idea. In fact, I already had this idea (can’t prove it ‘cause I didn’t put it in writing). It’s a perfect antidote, and it would really get the American system of checks and balances and division of power (good ideas, I think) working properly. I take issue however with the way you articulate the argument, though. I know several decent rich people and three respectable former “frat boys”.
Hey, today my girlfriend and I witnessed a six year old boy get hit twice--closed fist--in the face by his mother, who appeared to be a mere 15 years his elder. The kid was hysterical, obviously, and the mother showed no sign of letting up even with a crowd forming around her. When we stopped and stared and waited for her to calm down she looked at us and said--in Dutch--"what’re you looking for? Keep moving!” To continue the conversation on violence/pacifism/self-defense from yesterday, the thing I feel after witnessing that on the street (certainly not the first time I’ve seen it in my life) is hot shame I didn’t pop that bitch twice in the mouth myself.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague 11/22 at 01:27 PMJoe, I was writing during your Jensen post. I guess we’re on a similar wave-length at the moment. Jensen always beats you up. I’ll be back in a little while with a quote or two.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague 11/22 at 01:30 PMClosed fist? Twice? Man...that’s rough. I know the feeling you had afterwards too, Keir. Sometimes I wonder what further damage would be caused the kid seeing a parent retaliated against violently and how said parent would take revenge on the kid even worse later on. But still, hot shame is a good description or how I’ve felt in the past.
I know a big, scary looking Puerto Rican guy...former killer (seriously), sexually and physically abused as a child. He explained that he is now able to control himself when he sees a child being abused in the street. But before, before he became a more “enlightened” person, a drug/alcohol free person, he would be unable to hold himself back and would teach this person (parent/guardian/etc) a lesson that they could never forget...I guess, if he can hold back, you or I can too.
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 01:40 PMHey Joe, I have one more horrible statistic on the same subject:
1 in 3 woman and 1 in 6 men were sexually abused as children.
Jensen is one of the few people writing about this outside of self-help book authors. Talk about hot shame…
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 01:54 PMZinn says
“I wonder now how the foreign policies of the United States would look if we wiped out the national boundaries of the world, at least in our minds, and thought of all children everywhere as our own. Then we could never drop an atomic bomb on Hiroshima, or napalm on Vietnam, or wage war anywhere, because wars, especially in our time, are always wars against children, indeed our children.”
Jensen says
“You cannot negotiate with someone who systematically lies to you.”
and
“...the cannibals have trapped us in an alley with two dead ends. If we fail to fight them we die, and if we fight them we run the risk of becoming them.”
and (get ready for a long one)
“On October 13, 1997, Colombus Day plus one, NASA launched the Cassini Space Probe. The ostensible purpose was to explore Saturn. We could discuss the arrogance, stupidity, and inhumanity of spending $3.4 billion to explore another planet while $285 million would save the lives of 2.5 million children annually on the planet we already occupy. But the death urge is made even more clear by another factor [...] In order to power its instruments, the probe contains 72.3 pounds of plutonium, mainly plutonium-238, which is about two hundred times more deadly than plutonium-239 [the ingredient in nuclear weapons]...
“There are two ways the plutonium could have been delivered to human victims. The first is that the Titan IV rocket carrying the probe could have exploded on launch. NASA estimated the danger of this at one in 456, which is bad enough...but the truth is that a Titan IV rocket has already exploded. Nongovernmental estimates of failure were “between one in ten and one in twenty.”
“The other way the plutonium could have killed people would have been if on the flyby the probe suffered what NASA scientists dryly called “an inadvertent reentry.” If NASA calculations would have been imprecise (a mission to Mars crashed because scientists failed to convert English to metric measurements), or if the probe had malfunctioned, it could have fallen into Earth’s atmosphere and burned up [...] The scientists stated that “approximately 5 billion of the estimated 7 to 8 billion world population at the time of the swingbys could receive 99 percent or more of the radioactive exposure.” These quotes are from NASA’s Final Environmental Impact Statement for the Cassini Probe [prepared by Cheney’s Haliburton], one of the documents used to justify the launch.”
captcha word = “heavy”
Posted by Keir on from The Hague 11/22 at 02:01 PMYou know, JOS, the whole world is broken. Beyond “repair,” I’d say.
As I wander the web, at times, I’m still struck by the number of articles talking about our need to “take back” our country, or about how America was “unraveled.”
Bullshit -
The only vaguely “just” societies I’ve ever read about were some variant of “aboriginal.” All the others have been completely based on domination - within nations, domination of the general population by a few elites; worldwide, the domination manifests itself as rich, powerful nations raping and robbing the poor, weak nations.
Isn’t this the entire history of the world?
If not - what examples are there of exceptions?
I know of none, really. Cuba could have been an exception, I think, had the Capitalist nations not attempted to kill off the revolution even before the final shots had been fired.The whole world is broken. Beyond repair.
The best we can do is put band aids on shotgun-sized wounds.
Everything, every single segment of society, everywhere, is just dripping with blood and disease and corruption…
The whole world needs to be turned upside-down.Posted by joe on from All round in the dark 11/22 at 02:07 PMJoe, Jensen’ll do that to you. Here’s two more quotes, you need them:
“The best we can hope for is that we begin to throttle down our overblown technology, to bring ourselves to a soft landing instead of a full crash.”
but
“It is not possible to recover from atrocity in isolation. It is, in fact, precisely this isolation that induces the atrocities. If we wish to stop the atrocities, we need merely step away from the isolation. Theere is a whole world waiting ready for us, ready to welcome us home. It has missed us as sorely as we have missed it. And it is time to return.”
Posted by Keir on from The Hague 11/22 at 02:13 PMI can’t say you’re wrong, Joe. But even if it is beyond repair, we can do what you outlined in your article the other day (work in our communities, talk to people, change minds), or else life ain’t worth living much and when we get really old (I mean even older than you, Joe) we will wonder about all of the things we could have done differently.
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 02:13 PMAbout Children, one of my favorite topics. If we really loved them maybe we wouldn’t institutionalize them almost from birth in day care centers. How much better it would be if children could be cared for in the home by a loving Mother and/or Father, instead of being cared for by under-paid workers who have no permanent bond to the child. The whole issue of how we care for children separates me from most feminists. BTW, my less than 2 year-old Grandson has added a new word to his rapidly growing vocabulary. It is “Peace”.
Joe, I didn’t write the Chuchill poem, if you are referring to what Mickey put here today, but thanks for giving me credit for something that he wrote.Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/22 at 02:17 PMGreat Quotes, Keir. Thanks. Yeah, Jensen is pretty brutal. His analogy of a blind alley is apt, eh? Of course, we can’t fight them, as such. We’d be torn to shreds in seconds in any sort of violent confrontation. Violence is what they do, and they’re very, very good at it. And, yes, we’d become them, even if we could win with violence…
But, what if we just “dismissed” them. What if tens of millions of people, in the US, say, just said: Enough?
They could send in the military, but meanwhile, mommies and daddies and aunts and uncles and brothers and sisters from all over the country would be writing and calling Private Billy and Johnny and Joey to say: “You’ll be hurting your own families if you attack us, you know. We’d like you to just come home now.!”
How could the government cope with an army whose families have asked them all to stand down?
I don’t know…
I don’t know…
About the Cassini Probe: There’s an amazing little film called: “The Arsenal of Hypocrisy,” about NASA and the launching of plutonium, etc.. It seems we’re in the process of militarizing space, and these launches are just the beginning.
And, yeah, a rocket with plutonium in it did explode at some point. Some scientists think it’s contributed heavily to the increased cancer rates, world-wide. One pound of plutonium is enough to provide a lethal dose to all humans…Posted by joe on from Who Knows? 11/22 at 02:25 PMKeir, about “throttling down our overblown technology...” Sounds a little like Ted Kaczynski. http://tinyurl.com/8dqd9
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/22 at 02:27 PMRosemarie, yeah, I did think you wrote it. Well, you certainly could have… I’m giving you the credit, anyway!
Imagine what those children will be like when they grow up - if they grow up… We’re destroying entire generations as we go, while sanctimoniously defending “family ideals” in front of the cameras…JOS, I sure don’t think we should give up, just give up on the idea of “fixing” the US or the world, or “restoring” the innate goodness and democratic ideals of our government.
It’s like a house which has been through a tsunami or a major earthquake - still standing, sort of, but structurally on the verge of collapse. Better to bulldoze the whole thing and start over, from the beginning…Have you guyz read Zerzan, as well?
He and Jensen are relatively new to me. Both men are about 2 hours from here, one south, one north.“ideas”
Posted by joe on from across the street 11/22 at 02:50 PMjoe, pertaining to your comment yesterday logged in at 2:52 PM i don’t have a bunch of old albums but i do have a few cds of older artists including woody guthrie. I guess cds are also old since the latest musical technology is the ipod. I like great literature and that is what woody guthrie’s songs are.
article on spanking: http://tinyurl.com/7kfz9
Posted by tm on from controlled climate 11/22 at 02:54 PMAbout the Cassini Probe...think of the arrogance of a small group of men who took that gamble with the lives of, maybe, all of us on the planet. The same thing happened back in the 1940’s when a small group of men tested the A-bomb. It is reported that they did not know if it would set the atmosphere on fire and kill every living thing on Earth. The worship of Science is very much like a religion.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/22 at 02:58 PM“How could the government cope with an army whose families have asked them all to stand down?”
It’d be fucked, that’s how it would cope. And that’s the secret. Inform the troops. And yes, dismiss them, render them irrelevent and ridiculous (Arundhati Roy), stand up to them silently, continue the work of MLK and those around him (because the work was cut short when he began to make the vital connection between race and imperialism).
Hey Rosemarie, yes it’s nice to be cared for by loving parents, but as a very good, underpaid nursery school worker I can tell you that the institutionalization often comes with the kids from home--the ridiculously plastic food they eat, the ridiculously overpriced clothing they wear, the hot-pink plastic toys they play with reenforcing society-imposed ideas of gender and the heroism of war.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague 11/22 at 02:59 PMYes, I’ve read Zerzan...somehow introduced to him at the same time I was reading Jensen as well...I hear what you are saying about the bulldozer, Joe.
I was looking at Ted’s website there and I started getting a little freaked out because some of his ideas make a lot of sense to me...of course, they aren’t “his,” he is regurgitating (sp?), like we all do in one form or another.
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 03:00 PMHey hey hey, JOS. Watch out. Just because some crazy idiot has the same idea as you, doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea. I hear this all the time--something like “that’s a good idea, but [insert your favorite baddy here] had it first”. I don’t like it one bit.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague 11/22 at 03:10 PMWow...I’m not sure how and where to jump in on all this amazing stuff but, get this, I was planning to post this Henry Miller quote tomorrow:
“Most of the young men of talent whom I have met in this country give one the impression of being somewhat demented. Why shouldn’t they? They are living amidst spiritual gorillas, living with food and drink maniacs, success-mongers, gadget innovators, publicity hounds. God, if I were a young man today...if I were faced with a world such as we have created, I would blow my brains out ... I would certainly never think to write a book or paint a picture or compose a piece of music. For whom? Who besides a handful of desperate souls can recognize a work of art? What can you do with yourself if your life is dedicated to beauty? Do you want to face the prospect of spending the rest of your life in a strait jacket? Go West, young man...they used to say. Today we have to say: Shoot yourself, young man, there is no hope for you.”
Now, I’ll stick with the ol’ reliable Burroughs “Thanksgiving prayer” tomorrow (and maybe I run Miller’s quote next week).
As for Jensen, one of the many things I like about him is his honesty about himself. He calls himself a racist, a sexist, a hypocrite, etc. He says out loud what we all know about him and ourselves and everyone. It inspired me to be more honest with myself. To paraphrase Eugene Debs, “I’m no better than the meanest person on earth.”
We cling to our egos. We always have to be right, be smarter, prettier, richer, etc. Meanwhile, the list Joe provides above goes ignored. Zillions of other similar lists...unmentioned.
Big Country, I must admit that I had hard time digging Daniel Quinn...but that was years ago. Your enthusiasm for his work is inspiring me to re-read him.
Here’s a review of a Zerzan book I did a few years back:
http://tinyurl.com/a7fdoFinally, something old of mine on Cassini and NASA:
http://tinyurl.com/du6e6Thanks, Joe, TM, JOS, RMJ, Keir, and anyone else I may have missed. I’m going back now to re-read all the comments.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 11/22 at 03:11 PMI’m sorry for a quick subject change, but I remember there was once a “favorite anti-war movie” kind of theme here. I just noticed that one of my favorites, Punishment Park by Peter Watkins, has just come out in the US on DVD (for the first time, after a hugely controversial short run in Manhattan in 1971). I think you guys might really like this (don’t mean to be a shill or anything).
Posted by Peter (the other) on from California 11/22 at 03:13 PMKeir...I know that what you say in #35 is true, but not all nursery school workers are as good as you are. To me there is something very threatening about the government FORCING poor women to place their children in day care centers. That’s the way that it is here. /////////It has just started to snow here, those great big snowflakes that accumulate fast.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/22 at 03:15 PMI was kind of joking kind of serious about the Ted K. comment, and I completely agree with you that no idea should be discounted because it was thought up or brought up by a supposed madman or woman...by the way, who else immediately thinks of Will Ferrel when Ted’s name comes up?
Mickey, did you read Story of B? I would think you would like it because of your 12 years of Catholic School imprisonment.
Anyway, he’s not for everyone. Many people think he is a horrible writer (plot, character development-wise), I think “B” has the best plot. I like him because he helped me understand how we got to where we are today. I need to know the root of a problem in order to really think about it. Of course, many think he is completely wrong...I think he is mostly right.
He thinks like an anarchist, in my opinion...and that’s a good thing. You know I sent a copy of Ishmael to Noam Chomsky once? Michael Albert thought he was a wate of time. But Joe’s getting into him, right Joe?
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 03:35 PMThanks again, Mickey! Will read the interview now - and I like the poem.
Hi to all of you MZ’ers and thanks for all those facts, links, etc.
It is NOT pouring in Daylesford, Australia, but we had quite a stormy night last night. Today’s forecast: sunny and 75F - it is now 7:42 am on Wednesday 23 November.Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 11/22 at 03:42 PMPeter, that looks like an interesting movie…
Posted by JOS on from Puerto Rico 11/22 at 03:44 PMWonderful quote from Mr. Miller, Mickey.
I enjoyed your review of Zerzan’s book, as well:
“For me, a book that asks big questions (Why do humans ignore the nature of their bodies and minds? Has one single man-made item been a necessary improvement on the earth? Why do we put the survival of all species in peril for our exclusive comfort and gratification?) transcends labels like primitivist, syndicalist, and even anarchist. No one theory can or should own such fundamental inquiry…”Bravo, MickeyZ. That little paragraph should be required reading for me, and for all people, everywhere, every day, forever…
Nice NASA piece, too, Mickey. You’d enjoy that “Arsenal of Hypocrisy,” also, I’d bet…Peter, JOS, you’re right, “Punishment Park” does look interesting. Looks like there’s been some effort to keep it out of the public eye, which makes it all the more intriguing. Thanks Peter the Other - and, please, thank the other Peter, also.
Have you guys noticed that new George Clooney film, Syriana? The little I’ve seen about it, thusfar, looks great…Well, JOS, I’ve got the “Ishmael” on my desk. I’ve only browsed through, thusfar - enjoyed the hand-drawn, hand-lettered maps, and a few of the conversations I’ve paused to “eavesdrop” on. It’s interesting that Ishmael refers to us as “Takers.” Dead on. I’m definitely going to read it… if Jensen doesn’t kill me first.
I want to know how we got here, too, JOS, and what we might be underneath all this (Jesus! Get it off me… ugh…aargh...Oh, shit!) “Civilization.”
I guess it’s impossible to know, but some fairly accurate insights might be possible, I hope.Hi Helga - it’s 2:45 pm on your yesterday.
Hi TM, thanks for the reply. You’re right - Guthrie did some great, great stuff. I read that Einstein used to delight in talking with him…
Ever listen to Utah Phillips?Or to Django Reinhardt or Stephane Grapelli?
(No words, of course, but great stuff, nevertheless.)Posted by joe on from Oregon 11/22 at 05:55 PMAs a newly minted father of a three month old son, the discussion of children’s welfare is a painfully relevant subject. I have often wondered how someone could look into their child’s eyes and not feel an empathy with all other parents and their children. How could you not see them as yourself? How could you not acknowledge their love, their hope, or their lives?
It seems to me that children are a bond between all cultures, races, and classes. Many of this world’s problems would cease to be if people were truly interested in the welfare of children.
Before my son was born, an acquaintance with children of her own told my wife and I what to expect.
“It’s like having your heart outside your body.”
She was right. If only we all did.
Posted by Cart on from near Warshington DC 11/22 at 05:55 PMzoo forced to take tiger and giraffe off menu:
http://tinyurl.com/d35hvPosted by tm on from controlled climate 11/22 at 05:59 PMHello friends...and welcome to the mix, Helga, Peter, and Cart. Love this concept (with or without kids), Cart: “having your heart outside your body.” Reminds me of something Che said (and I paraphrase): “If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, you are a comrade of mine.”
Sadly, it’s often viewed as a significant weakness to wear one’s heart on one’s sleeve...but isn’t that part of the problems being discussed here? We must hide our feelings, be strong, be tough like our movie heroes and our GI heroes and our history textbook heroes. But, as Elvis Costello asked: What’s so damn funny about peace, love, and understanding?
JOS: I have not read Story of B so I’ll give it a try.
TM: That TinyURL link didn’t connect. I’ll try again later.
Joe: Hadn’t heard of Syriana. I’ll Google it now.
Peter: Who is the other?
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 11/22 at 06:13 PMHi Mickey, there is always another Peter
, and why, occifer, I swear it must have been that other Peter!
I live in a town that people sneeringly refer to as “The People’s Republic” (for its leftish town council). I always ask, “what’s wrong with a people’s republic?”
Posted by Peter (the other) on from California 11/22 at 06:24 PMHey Peter, it makes sense to me (the “other” stuff, I mean). Also, I often call my neighborhood The People’s Republic of Astoria and it never fails to get a laugh. For me, it’s wishful thinking.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 11/22 at 06:30 PMLink for Syriana website: http://tinyurl.com/aws4k It has a great trailer for the movie right there, and it starts playing automatically.
Posted by suzanne on from 11/22 at 06:55 PMWith regards to Zerzan and Jensen, it would be easy to go into a huge discussion about anti-civilization ideas, one could also mention Fredy Perlman’s later works as well as David Watson and more. I find their critique (the primitivist one) interesting and necessary, but their proposals highly absurd and frankly non-radical.
One thing to note about anti-civ ideas is how they got there basis in the left-communist/libertarian marxist milieu. The Frankfurt School ideas about reconciling humanity with nature, living within nature as opposed to dominating it, are what Zerzan is largely based on. Zerzan was also heavily situationist-influenced, as was Perlman (of course, he actually participated in May ‘68). Jacques Camatte, another dude from whom anti-civers find inspiration was a left communist of the Bordighist tradition (Amadeo Bordiga, founder of the Italian Communist Party, last westerner to publicly criticize Stalin to his face, as far as we know). Anyhaps, it is interesting to note how the anti-civ ideas have their theoretical foundations in the very much pro-civilization marxian tradition. The anti-civers just extend the marxian critique of alienation and reification from capitalism to civilization itself.
Good times.Posted by JNR on from Portland, OR 11/22 at 07:20 PMresponse to joe logged in today at 5:55 pm: joe, i’ve never listened to Utah Phillips, Django Reinhardt or Stephane Grapelli. any recommendations where to start. i read somewhere that lonnie johnson had an influence on django reinhardt so maybe i’ll check him out.
lonnie johnson: http://tinyurl.com/cxj33
there is no justice, racketeer’s blues and i’m nuts about that gal are three of my favorite songs by him. interesting lyrics.Posted by tm on from controlled climate 11/22 at 07:41 PMHey TM -
I’m not sure where to begin with Utah Phillips. I’d guess any “old standards” CD would be a very pleasant surprise. He worked with Annie DiFranco, fairly recently, which I’ve not heard, but which is probably a good bet. He’s an old IWW, radical / folksinger type, who’d fit right in with Woodie’s work.
Reinhardt and Grapelli both did their most interesting work, I think, when they were together in “The Quintet of the Hot Club of France.” Incredible jazz… There were several “albums” at one time, but I’m not sure how they all made the transition to CD…
They recorded lots of music individually, as well. I prefer Reinhardt’s pre-WWII stuff, but he’s always astonishing. Grapelli just died in the late 1990’s, and he did very good work for a
long time. He made some tasty music with David Grisman, which might be worth a look…I’ve not heard of Lonnie Johnson. Thanks.
I guess southern black folks named Johnson were pretty damned good with a guitar, eh?Take care, TM, and thanks again for the note.
Posted by joe on from Oregon 11/22 at 09:06 PMHello all…
Cart, awesome comment and quote from your wife...I think that’s one I will always remember. Congratulations on being a newly minted father.
tm - my brother turned me on to Lonnie Johnson, he’s is great.
JNR - I have a hard time with categories, labels as well as sweeping ideas or concepts. I like to take what I find truthful in each writer or person I meet and leave the rest. I never got into Zerzan much because I didn;t connect with him, or maybe he didn;t connect with me.
Jensen, I connected with immediately. His humanity is there for everyone to see, kind of like his heart is on the outside of his body.
Posted by JOS on from Calle Colón 11/22 at 09:11 PMsimultaneous posting Joe...hello.
Posted by JOS on from Calle Colón 11/22 at 09:18 PM9:24 in Astoria. Starting to feel like winter a bit. Lots of great recommendations here. If I only had three clones, I could see all these movies and read all these books and listen to all this music.
I do have a question for Jake (welcome to the site, btw): Why does it seem that so many who go for Jensen or Zerzan live up in the Pacific Northwest?
Mudge must be busy with the novel, huh? I’ve hit 29,000 words but, again, it’s highly unlikely I reach more than 35K.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 11/22 at 09:27 PMHi to Suzanne, too. I mistook your comment as your husband’s. Sorry about that.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 11/22 at 09:28 PMI honestly have no idea why so many people who “go for” Zerzan and Jensen and folks like that live in the Pacific Northwest. A whole bunch of them are concentrated in Eugene, Oregon, as well as Zerzan himself. Maybe it’s because there are so many wonderful natural wild areas left around here, maybe not, but even here, as a total percentage of radicals, they are a small minority.
One of the most disappointing towns in the country is Eugene; it’s internationally known as an anarchist/radical hotspot, and it’s true, a lot of such folks do live there, but there is essentially no public radical presence there, not even a cafe, not even a bookstore, very disappointing. But Eugene is still a pleasant city. Here in Portland we have at least a dozen radical hangouts.Posted by JNR on from Portland, OR 11/22 at 09:56 PMThanks, Jake. I’d like very much to visit Portland.
Night all…
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 11/22 at 10:15 PMHi Humans -
Cart - I agree with JOS & Mickey - I’m amazed by the power of that phrase. Thanks for posting it, and for your entire note.
About Zerzan; I’m not sure I’ve found any real connection with him, at least not yet. The book I’ve been reading, off and on, is called “Against Civilization,” a collection of more than 60 essays. Zerzan is the editor. He also contributed the introduction and a couple of essays. I understand he’s an academic guy, which fact tends to put me on guard, immediately. We’ll see.
I’m in complete agreement with JOS on this one, JNR: I’m just looking for an insight, here and there - a few glimmers of something or other to help me on my way. I’m never going to fill out any forms, or seek a membership card.
I’ve been around communists and self-described anarchists, off and on over the years, and the endless arguments over details of dogma or “appropriate v. inappropriate analysis” make me sick. I know a lot of people, also, who can’t seem to think beyond whatever author they’re currently studying, as if each book they read is the latest, greatest truth, and they’re struggling desperately to make it their own.
They seem to think that my groping about for some sort of personal understanding is somehow childish or superficial.I’m especially drawn to weirdos, and outsiders, and outlaws and magicians, and I got the impression that Zerzan and Jensen were two very unusual fellows with wonderfully unique perspectives. I’m not sure I’ve yet seen anything unique from either of them, but I’m chugging along…
My sister is in Portland, I’m a few miles outside of Grants Pass.
Portland - and Seattle, are both amazing places.
Anyway, welcome to Mickey’s Place, JNR. Come back and blab with us again, OK?G`night, Mickey.
It’s 7:48 pm here in Oregon…Posted by joe on from Oregon 11/22 at 10:48 PMJoe,
I prefer the pre-WWII Django too, though afterwards it was still beautiful there´s a hard showboating edge to it, perhaps he felt threatened by the bebop taking over at the time, even though he did incorporate a lot of it. Grapelli has an album called Young Django with a Belgian fella he calls that in the seventies, it´s very sweet.Posted by Owen on from Barcelona 11/23 at 04:35 AM
Next entry: William S. Burroughs: Thanksgiving Prayer
Previous entry: Tookie Williams and the death penalty
Copyright © 2005-2007 Mickey Z.
