Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Thursday, December 01, 2005
Holiday spirit, Ward Churchill, Lori Berenson, Tookie Williams, Blair-Watch, and more
Amazingly powerful interview with Tookie, especially this:
STANLEY TOOKIE WILLIAMS: The death penalty, it’s not a system of justice, it is a system of – a so-called system of justice that perpetuates a, shall I say, a vindictive type of response, a vigilante type of aura upon it. We’re talking about something that is barbaric. We’re talking about something that – it doesn’t deter anything. I mean, if it did, then it wouldn’t be so many – especially in California, we’re talking about over 650 individuals on death row. And if it was a deterrent, this place wouldn’t be filled like this. And it’s an expensive ordeal that – the money, as you know, the monetary means comes out of the taxpayers’ pocket.
And for anyone to think that murder can be resolved by murdering, it’s ridiculous. I mean, we look at all of the wars that we have throughout other countries and other nations, and all it does is – this violence, all it does is engender violence. There seems to be no end, but a continuous cycle, an incessant process of blood and gore that doesn’t end. And through violence, you can’t possibly obtain peace. You can, in a sense, occupy a belief of peace; in other words, through this mechanism of violence, you – it appears that because there is a standing army or standing police that is used in brutality or violence or a system that uses brutality or violence that that is going to totally eliminate or stop criminous behavior or criminous minds or killings or what have you, but it doesn’t.
Posted by JOS on from PR 12/01 at 08:23 AMI guess he still has his meeting with Schwarzenegger, but this isn’t good:
Posted by JOS on from PR 12/01 at 08:30 AMCongratulations to Mickey, Mudge, and all other authors of novels also novel authors. What an accomplishment! How soon can we all get copies to read?
Mudge, I was absent yesterday because you weren’t around. The world feels different when you are gone. Now you are back. When you are here the sun shines at midnight and lilacs burst into bloom. Let the party begin.Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 12/01 at 09:32 AMThere was a little Amnesty International rally outside the American Embassy here today. I was cycling by and stopped to help them place 1000 wooden crosses representing the 1000 people murdered (officially) by the state in the US since it reinstated the death penalty in 1976.
A representative from the Embassy came out in the frigid cold and listened politely to an Amnesty spokesman deliver his speech in Dutch. Then the spokesman handed a letter to the Embassy official, to be delivered to his boss, and they smiled warmly and shook hands. Everybody clapped. It was nice. And now no one will ever die unjustly, ever. I love it when a plan comes together.
But seriously. I sympathize wholeheartedly with all that I’ve heard from Tookie, and yes I’m unconditionally opposed to the death sentence. But if he has any hope in prevailing upon any of the decision makers the value of his life, he ought to ixnay the talk about the wider picture.
I mean, looking at it from the side of someone (like Schwarzenegger) who is pleased as punch that a Nobel prize-nominated individual proclaiming his innocence might soon have tax-payer subsidized poison injected into his bloodstream: if Tookie makes noise about his anti-gang work, discusses his plight and the plight of urban youth and so on in isolation, well, then his life is worth something. But if he tries to connect his situation to the larger issues of state violence at home and abroad, and how terribly sick the given system is...I’m playing devil’s advocate here, you understand....they will want that particular high-profile voice of reason silenced ASAFP.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague 12/01 at 09:47 AMSorry Rosemarie, writing while you were. Yes, congratulations to all who wrote for 30 days. I admire you. I lasted a mere two days (less than 1000 words). Um, so it goes.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague 12/01 at 09:49 AMGood morning, all. I thought I’d toss in a quote from the ruling class:
“I believe that people would be alive today if there were a death penalty.”
Nancy ReaganPosted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 12/01 at 10:06 AMWhen someone else does it, it’s barbaric:
http://tinyurl.com/7w5qfPosted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 12/01 at 10:11 AMIt’s the death penalty for Tookie and Van and for innumerable ordinary folks all over the globe - and for relatively petty crimes, when considered in the broader context of government and corporate crime…
And -
It’s a fat, rosy future for Don Rumsfeld and Dick Chaney and the gang of mass-murderers in the White House -
seats on corporate boards, national and international speaking engagements, periodic, high-profile, lobbying assignments, US and international consulting jobs…It’s a wonderful world.
Posted by joe on from Oregon 12/01 at 11:17 AMGreat piece on the US & Israeli “good neighbor” policy, Mickey. Oh, and I guess we should throw Somalia in there, as well.
As usual, Churchill hits the jugular…Posted by joe on from Oregon 12/01 at 11:22 AMHello Joe. Speaking of hitting the jugular, Mr. Shaw was quite adept, e.g. “Criminals do not die by the hands of the law. They die by the hands of other men.”
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 12/01 at 11:29 AMYeah, these people are being murdered - murdered by governments which are careful to first create laws which describe it as something else…
Nietzsche said that one could judge the relative health of a nation by observing how it treats its weakest, most vulnerable citizens…
Posted by joe on from Oregon 12/01 at 11:43 AMHere’s the quote I feel complements Nietzsche perfectly:
“One can measure the greatness and the moral progress of a nation by looking at how it treats its animals.”
- Mahatma GandhiBtw, if you all can, please check out the Lori Berenson links. Her story is too often ignored.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 12/01 at 11:52 AMYes, the Japanese President of this little Indian / Hispanic, South American nation, felt that young peace activist Lori Berenson was a terrorist and “traitor.”
Fortunately, Mr. Fujimori is safe now, living quietly and happily in Japan, while Lori remains in prison.
Posted by joe on from Oregon 12/01 at 12:08 PM10 years and no end in sight, for Lori. Of course, we are seeing similar incarcerations under our anti-terrorist laws here in the US.
It’s a bizarro world, Joe. Mass murderers run the country and philosopher kings are on death row.
No street crime, not even murder, can can compare to the death and destruction caused by our government.
Posted by JOS on from PR 12/01 at 12:14 PMWell, JOS - fortunately, we’re working hard for freedom and democracy, down there in South America, right now;
unfortunately, it’s Venezuala on which we’re concentrating - not Peru…Peru isn’t exhibiting the same sort of “crisis of democracy,” as we’re seeing in Venezuela, it seems. We’ve got to find a way to stop them, before they can firmly establish a good example!
Posted by joe on from Oregon 12/01 at 01:12 PMTheologians to ask Pope to suspend limbo?: http://tinyurl.com/bjlhh
for JOS: http://tinyurl.com/bg5qr
Christmas: 1924 by Thomas Hardy
‘Peace upon earth!’ was said. We sing it,
And pay a million priests to bring it.
After two thousand years of mass
We’ve got as far as poison-gas.Most Peruvians Reject Fujimori’s Candidacy: http://tinyurl.com/cgzsb
Posted by tm on from underground 12/01 at 01:45 PMGrowing up Catholic, as I did, limbo was taken very seriously. I still know people who live in fear of it until a baby in baptized.
If the Pope dumps that limbo, he can hit this one next: http://tinyurl.com/c647o
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 12/01 at 01:50 PMHi Keir, JOS, Joe, Mickey, and tm I have been following the Lori Berenson case for a long time. What can we do? There are so many around the world being held unjustly in prison.
Every time I reread that Churchill essay, I find another favorite quote. Could not resist this one today “...Maybe they forgot to factor in the mind-numbing effects of the indoctrination passed off as education in the US. Then, again, it’s entirely possible they were aware that a decisive majority of American adults have been reduced by this point to a level much closer to the kind of immediate self-gratification entailed in Pavlovian stimulus/response patterns than anything accessible by appeals to higher logic,...”
The Bennington teacher who used a slightly unflattering statement about Bush in a quiz has formally apologized to the community. Basically, the official position of the school administration is that teachers should never question the government. This whole controversy reminds me of a graphic that I have been holding on my computer for a while now. I will send it to Mickey and will trust his judgement. Maybe it should be censored but I often look at it when the government/bureaucracy does something really awful.Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 12/01 at 02:06 PMUh-oh, RMJ, the pressure’s on me, now.
That Bennington case proves what I’ve been saying in recent talks and interviews: For many Americans, the best way to celebrate and honor freedom of speech is to keep one’s opinions to oneself.
As for Lori, I don’t know what we can do. I wish I had a useful idea.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 12/01 at 02:11 PMHangman promises good job
http://tinyurl.com/c5tngthe hangman: http://tinyurl.com/az3d9
Posted by tm on from underground 12/01 at 02:21 PMThat’s right Mickey, the pressure is on you now. I have had that graphic on my computer for a long time and for a reason that I can’t explain, it sort of destresses me when I am in need of a relief valve from the latest horror done to humanity.
And about the sorry state of education, that is particularly offensive for so many reasons. It involves the contamination of future generations, it is the ultimate in bait-and switch, pretending to do so much good etc etc.Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 12/01 at 02:23 PMThanks for another day of excellent links, TM. That last one included a site where we can all sign a petition to stop the hanging: http://stophanging.com.
RMJ: That image will be up here tomorrow.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 12/01 at 02:25 PMtm, thanks for the link. I had been sort of following that case but did not know the name of the executioner. By his name, I would say that he might be a Sikh. That is sad for me, tho I know that Sikhs are not pacifists. My younger sister, who had attended Catholic schools, went to India, became a Sikh, had an arranged marriage to a Guru, moved to Brazil, gave birth to 3 children, and lived happily ever after.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 12/01 at 02:43 PMThanks for the masters of photography link, tm!
As for Singapore’s executioner, talk about a perfect job for a serial killer, this guy is probably one of most prolific of all time:
“Mr Singh, 74, is Singapore’s chief executioner and has hanged more than 800 prisoners over 45 years.”
I think there are only about 2 or 3 million people in Singapore, that number is horrifying.
Great quote from Churchill, RMJ. Don’t you think Mudge may get jealous of all the attention you give though?
Looking forward to this mysterious image…
Posted by JOS on from PR 12/01 at 02:56 PMok that hangman was fired, apparently they may fly someone in. that’s a lot of effort http://tinyurl.com/99dnv
Mr. Singh must have gotten used to his job who knows he may have started off like the two men he tried to train.
Posted by tm on from underground 12/01 at 04:10 PMGreat post, Mickey - and I haven’t even clicked on any links yet.
And hi to all of you MZ’ers/expendables.
Just one brief comment re this: ‘ ..and it’s instructive to recognize how often the only two nations voting “no” on a given resolution are Israel and the US...especially during the so-called holiday season.’ Unfortunately all too often in the last few months those two nations have been joined by Australia.
The second day of summer in Australia has dawned - it will be less warm than yesterday: about 73F and showers. That’s fine with me.Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 12/01 at 04:15 PMThanks for all those great quotes, links and especially this, Mickey:
‘For many Americans, the best way to celebrate and honor freedom of speech is to keep one’s opinions to oneself.’Not only for Americans ..
Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 12/01 at 04:37 PMAnother great Churchill quote, “Well, really, let’s get a grip here shall we? True enough, they were civilians of sort. But innocent? Give me a break.”
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 12/01 at 04:40 PMThanks, Helga.
RMJ: In a grand philosophical sense, I agree with the Ward quote you presented. None of us can or should be absolved of guilt. But not everyone killed on 9/11 deserves his labels. Of course, the direct and indirect fallout from the work some of those in the WTC performed could and did result in misery, poverty, and even death across the globe. But the vast majority of these people were, at most, guilty of being in denial...being dangerously ignorant of how their tax dollars, their rhetoric, and/or their silence made them (us) complicit in often-heinous crimes.
Even when viewed through the class structure we live in, there are inevitable gray areas. What if one of those killed was a WTC-based broker who was doing such work just long enough to cash out and do something good for the world? (Who doesn’t know someone like this?) How does he stack up against a fireman who literally saved hundreds in the towers but in his personal life was a racist, a sexist, and a militarist? (And who doesn’t know someone like that?) Didn’t Churchill publicly absolve the rescue workers? But couldn’t an EMT or a passerby or a food server be a “good German” as much or more than any worker at the WTC office of Raytheon?
I appreciate Churchill’s general point but I’m not comfortable with one label for 3000 individuals.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 12/01 at 05:21 PM“What if one of those killed was a WTC-based broker who was doing such work just long enough to cash out and do something good for the world?”
That could easily have been me...except I didn’t get any cash when I checked out.
I see churchill’s point as well…
Posted by JOS on from Calle Colón 12/01 at 05:33 PM“Amnesty International said in a 2004 report that about 420 people had been hanged in Singapore since 1991, mostly for drug trafficking, giving the city-state of 4.2 million people the highest execution rate in the world relative to population.”
from tm’s last link…
makes me happy my family left back in ‘89-’90.
Posted by JOS on from Calle Colón 12/01 at 05:45 PMThat controversial Ward Churchill quote reminds me of something Albert Camus wrote in The Fall:
“No excuses ever, for anyone; that’s my principle at the outset. I deny the good intention, the respectable mistake, the indiscretion, the extenuating circumstance.”
It made perfect sense to me until I grew up and started fucking up left and right. (That isn’t Camus’ point, by the way, but his protagonist’s.)
That whole innocence thing is touchy and I think should be avoided in that (Churchill’s) connection. <Evil</i> is another one to be avoided in my opinion. Even if everyone in the World Trade Center was a perfectly cruel and evil individual, pointing out the fact would not help the cause of justice and equality, I don’t think. The stunning thing about 9/11 was not the horrendous way Americans swagger about the world bopping whomever they want in the face.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague 12/01 at 06:09 PMHi Folks - I’ve been out for a bit.
JOS - I’ve never been to Singapore, but I had a friend in Honolulu whose daughter lived there. He said it was one of the “tightest,” most controlled societies in the world. Cameras everywhere - inside and outside. They even had “urine detection devices” built into the floors of elevators. If someone happened to pee in the elevator, the crime was instantly detected, police were dispatched, and the perp was carted off for a proper “caning.” Littering was also a crime for which people were often caned. Obviously, the place is pretty clean, and the elevators are generally spotless.Posted by joe on from Oregon 12/01 at 06:30 PMWell, Joe, if you want clean elevators...it comes with a price. No free lunches in this world, buddy. Not even in Singapore.
Keir, I’ll add to your comments by pointing out that Just three months prior to 9/11, my wife set up a meeting with many mainstream folks she knew in the hope of getting them interested in activism. She asked me to come along to stir things up and she also invited a woman who volunteers as an abortion clinic escort: guiding young women through the gauntlet of anti-abortion protestors. This woman is one of my true role models for activism.
The meeting—and here’s the punch line—happened to take place in the WTC. If the planes hit that June 2001 day, I’m vaporized. Were any of us—my wife, the abortion clinic escort, and myself—totally innocent? Of course not. But I’d submit we were not “good Germans” either.
The bigger point, however, is that even if someone could prove my guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, since when are we supporting the death penalty?
I’ve learned much from Ward Churchill over the course of many years. One such lesson is that we can respectfully disagree but still be on the same side.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 12/01 at 06:51 PMMickey you said, “... Didn’t Churchill publicly absolve the rescue workers? ...” Yes, Churchill has said that many times. He has absolved the janitors, food service workers, and many others. My view is that none of us should be absolved. Every time anyone of us participates in the economy in any way, we are supporting the war. It could not continue if the economy was not stirred up. Every time that I buy a pair of socks my conscience gives me a little nudge. I know that I am, to some degree, guilty of the killing that is going on.
I think that Churchill’s point about the lack of innocence of so many of us is very important because it helps chip away at the denial and also maybe, eventually, if quotes like Churchill’s are repeated often enough, people will start to understand the concept of Blowback. Those who visit this site already understand that but the vast majority of US citizens have no clue.
Keir, I think that some things are so evil that it is skirting the issue to avoid using that word.
Also, the argument that ignorance of US policies exonerates the average citizen from any responsibility for horrendous acts done in their name has a flaw. That argument could be used by everyone who was ever responsible for a holocaust. Hitler said that he was doing what he did to help “his” people. Maybe he believed that.
All I am saying is that at some point in a person’s life he has to accept responsibility for what he does. If he chooses to remain ignorant then that is a choice that he has made. Willful ignorance of some, has killed a lot of truly innocent others. The problem is that so many do not know what they do not know. The entire country had a marvelous “teaching moment” opportunity when Churchill’s controversy was in the media. Unfortunately, we blew it.Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 12/01 at 06:55 PMMickey about your comment # 34, if someone was at the WTC for say a Peace Protest, maybe at that specific moment he would not be a “Good German” but on his way home when he stopped to buy a pair of socks he would be. It seems to me that most of us wander in and out of virtue many times during a day.
And yes, I agree that the killing that took place was wrong, but understandable, explainable, and predictable.Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 12/01 at 07:05 PMAnother perspective on 9/11. From a letter I wrote to a friend a while back, after a conversation about Churchill’s perspective:
“...they were neither innocent nor guilty - they were all of us. We’re somehow stuporous by nature, responding to irritations or delights, and not much else. We sleep-walk past all manor of crimes every day. We don’t need more accusations or guilt or pain. We need to wake up.
The people killed or injured on September 11, of course, would have been far better off if they’d just slept in. Most of them had just risen from bed - one, two, three hours earlier. Had we checked, as the planes struck the Towers or the Pentagon, we might have found some of their beds still warm. We might have found home or apartment still redolent with smells of their shampoo, or perfume or coffee. Many of these people were probably yawning and stumbling their way into workaday consciousness as the attacks began.
Most of us live our lives in prose, not poetry, not in angry, revolutionary rhetoric - and these folks were no different. They were ordinary people, just settling into another prosaic day. No thoughts of grand gestures or world-changing responsibilities, just more of the same ol’: “Gotta remember to call that roofing contractor.” “Don’t forget Judy’s birthday card.” “Hope my wife isn’t still mad at me. I’ll stop and pick her up some flowers after work.” “The car is running funny again. I thought they fixed it!”
All our casualty statistics are just arithmetic, and the word ‘victim,’ here, seems more an epithet than a description of real people, with real lives.
Here - is a description:
(Excerpted from letters from Ray Dougherty, Professor of Linguistics, New York University, whose apartment had a view of the WTC towers…)“…the one thing I will never forget to my dying day, is the view of the people on the roof and higher floors of the World Trade Center lined up in the windows and on railings. You cannot see their expressions, but it is amazing what a 40 power telescope reveals…
“Some jumped in pairs, holding hands. I doubt if they were married or lovers. I think it was just two people, alone, desperate, black, white, oriental, who cares - the telescope didn’t allow me to distinguish age and race. They would just pair up and jump. I have thought all day about this. If I were on the roof, and I saw flames on all sides of the building, I would almost certainly jump rather than fry. And if I saw another trembling human alongside of me, I would be much happier holding their hand, and jumping as a pair. Somehow to jump as half of a
pair, even if the other half is an ad hoc recent acquaintance, seems to me an infinitely more human way to pass on to the next step, than to take the next step alone. “
“…I did not mention it in the first letter, but it seems to me relevant to something. When a person jumped alone, s/he went to the edge, stopped, looked over, and jumped like you would go into a pool. Those that went in pairs simply came out of a smoky nowhere inside of the building and walked over the edge with no pause, hesitation, or last second spring. “Posted by joe on from Oregon 12/01 at 07:36 PMHi Joe, nice writing there in # 37. Maybe the words “guilt” and “innocence” bother some people because of their religious connotation. The word “responsible” could then be used instead.
Also, I think that it is not only possible but easy, to feel compassion for the 9/11 victims while at the same time acknowledging the responsibility that all of us share while we wait for the next “Blowback”.Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 12/01 at 07:50 PMI understand and appreciate your point, RMJ, but I think distinctions must be made. Buying a pair of socks does not a “Little Eichmann” make. I spent $20 in my local health food store today. Theoretically, I supported the capitalist machine but what am I compared to the defense contractor who spent $10 million on his daughter’s bat mitzvah? We must make distinctions or else everyone is the enemy and there’s no difference between you and Kissinger.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 12/01 at 08:17 PMHi Rosemarie -
Thanks.
Well, I certainly agree that the attacks were “understandable, explainable, and predictable.” And, given what we’re generally about, in the world, it’s astonishing that the US isn’t attacked every two or three minutes.Don’t ever surrender your passion, Rosemarie. It’s one of the things I most admire about you…
Posted by joe on from Oregon 12/01 at 08:22 PMHi Mickey - didn’t see ya there.
You’re living a life we can all admire, my friend. You give us something to aim toward, however much we stumble and stagger along.Posted by joe on from Oregon 12/01 at 08:28 PMThanks, Joe...but (and this is not some contrived false modesty) I’d rather be seen as merely a sample instead of an example. I have my story, my path. It’s filled with mistakes and regrets but I’m not looking to trade with anyone. So, if someone glances at me and that gives them the urge to embrace the subversive pleasure of critical thought, well, that’s all I can ask for.
On that note, it’s 10:16 in Astoria. Weather is becoming more December-like. Thanks for another great day of conversation.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 12/01 at 10:18 PMSorry I had to skip out yesterday on a really important conversation.
I accept the idea of “blowback”, however wrong it is to instigate or take part in. But I cannot, seriously, accept the “evil” thing. Just as the death penalty makes a professional murderer out of the hangman, I think designating someone “evil” reveals some comfort with the idea that “good” and “evil” can be designated. By whom? If we believe in universality--and I think we do--then Dick Cheney has as much “right” to talk about good and evil as the rest of us. And he doesn’t. It’s the universality, fairness--to the extent possible, and justice we should focus on, in my opinion. And the blowback just wasn’t fair.
Rosemarie, to say I admire your passion and dedication is not going far enough. However I wonder if using the example of purchasing socks as a path to iniquity is helpful to our cause.
Joe, in #40 you said the 9/11 attacks were “understandable, explainable, and predictable.” Yes. Fine. But then, in a convoluted way, so is every atrocity the US commits. The atrocities are ordered by sociopathic rat bastards (evil? see above) and I can understand, explain, and predict their actions.
11:15 on a grey Friday morning. Maybe I shoulda stayed in bed.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague 12/02 at 05:06 AM
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