Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Tuesday, January 10, 2006
Lots of quotes ... "Ask the Nominee" ... Criticizing critics ... Fight Club plans ... & more
On diabetes, you write: “While so many on the planet die of starvation, some Americans are busy eating themselves to death,” implying that those who suffer from diabetes do so merely because they are gluttonous and self-indulgent.
This is nonsense and ignores the broader determinants of diabetes and related conditions. As the article pointed out, those most affected are the poor, who generally have access to the most unhealthy foods, which are also the cheapest. It has nothing to do with their being so “busy eating themselves to death.” The spatial distribution of diabetes and related illness, further, shows a heavy concentration in poor communities with ethnic minorities. As the article pointed out, in East Harlem, there are high concentrations of fast food restaurants. Likewise, grocers there do not tend to carry as many healthier items. As the article stated:
“Nutritious food exists, but it isn’t easy to find. Dr. Carol R. Horowitz, an assistant professor at Mount Sinai School of Medicine, heads an East Harlem coalition trying to improve diabetes care. She oversaw a study several years ago that tracked the availability of diet soda, low-fat or fat-free milk, high-fiber bread, fresh fruit and fresh vegetables in food stores in East Harlem and the Upper East Side.
Stores on the Upper East Side were more than three times more likely than those in East Harlem to stock all five items.”
Do you even read what you post before going off on victim-blaming tirades? What you posted resembles domestic neo-conservatism. In your view, poor people suffer from ailments that occur in high concentrations among them because of their behavior alone ("eating themselves to death"), rather than broader structures that constrain that behavior.
Posted by Kendrick on from New York, NY 01/10 at 07:30 AMWhile I’m hesitant to agree with Kendrick’s tone-- doesn’t he have a habit of posting a negative comment early on and then not coming back all day?-- yours does seem perhaps overly judgmental, Mickey. Maybe it’s too early in the day and I’m missing something, but I’m thinking of my obese mom who’s at constant risk of diabetes as far as I know and could not be said to be ‘eating herself to death’. Actually I still don’t know just why she’s so fat, it’s obviously very troubling to me. It’s great article in the Times you posted, but I don’t know, maybe more lead-in context than that quick phrase there would have been a good idea.
I’m just thinking of when you and I discussed your Bill Clinton heart disease article, and how that could have been taken as condescending or whatever and you said I should let you know if something seemed kinda off and all that.
Cool post besides that-- like the stuff about critics (uh oh, is that ironic, if I’m criticizing you post? But you know I mean it in a friendly way). And the Plague is a cool novel which was maybe a bit long, but was rife with cool quotes and passages throughout.
Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 01/10 at 07:54 AMthe comments about poor diet in the poorest areas are fair enough but there is a tremendous problem with obesity in the US and to a lesser extent europe that is self-induced. sometimes obese is related to some other condition. sometimes it isn’t. this has in turn led to an increased rate of diabetes
Posted by michael on from scotland 01/10 at 08:27 AMyeah, that’s just it-- ‘sometimes’. It’s so hard to generalize reasonably. Such a crappy situation. Really glad I inherited my dad’s metabolism or whatever you’d call it, not my mom’s… though of course I hope I don’t inherit everything about his physiology.
Hm-- “trying” to make the best of a bunch of bad situatons.
Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 01/10 at 08:42 AMthat said, if it was just physiology then we could expect to see similar rates of obesity worldwide and the truth is that that just isn’t the case.
Posted by michael on from scotland 01/10 at 08:49 AMI’m not sure “self-inducement” (i.e. the uncontrolled, self-indulgent eating that you and Z. claim happens so rampantly in the United States) is the best explanation. Two people who eat the same amount of food each day but live in different areas and are of different socioeconomic status can, in this country, experience very different health outcomes for the reasons outlined in the article (different qualities of food available in different geographical locations).
It’s notable that many self-righteous leftists defer to “over-eating” and behavioral reasons first for explaining higher rates of obesity. That line of thinking is not that much different than “the poor make less money because they are lazy and undisciplined.” It’s unclear whether overeating is actually even a primary cause of most obesity. Again, one would need to conduct a rigorous survey of those defined as “obese” to determine whether they in fact eat more, or whether they in fact eat the same amounts as everyone else—just unhealthier types of food. I rarely see Z. and others cite any of the public health literature that wrestles with these questions before jumping to the conclusion he posted today.
Posted by Kendrick on from 01/10 at 08:59 AMI think it’s rather likely that each of us has some experience with a friend, or family member who has or will likely develop diabetes.
I think Mickey’s post this morning was a straight up societal observation rather than a critique of diabetes patients. Can’t really argue with it on one hand - if anyone’s watched supersize me (movie - might have the title a little wrong) it’s evident that some people really are eating themselves to death.
In the Polynesian islands (a culture that traditionally values a fuller figure) it’s been documented that within 10 years of US television being introduced, there was an epidemic of bulemia in young girls. Meanwhile North America has the highest obesity rates. This continent unquestionably suffers from POOR DIET. There are plenty of ways that we can find to #### up our systems and filling them with garbage food is pretty easy.There really wasn’t enough said for me (by MZ) to disagree with, although I can see the point that Kendrick makes as a response his strikes me as more passionate than the post was.
AND....Good morning to JOS!
Mudge from last night...that sounds to be a truly confounding condition. I’m full of questions and answers but they all end with “I hope it does’nt act up on you” or some equivalent sentiment. I imagine you know more about the disease than some GPs you might meet.
I’m sorry to hear of all your troubles with it; sounds pretty difficult to manage.Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 01/10 at 09:01 AMI guess so. I guess some people could be better helped by shrinks than nutritionists. At least I hope so.
Best wishes to JOS and Joe and Mudge and everyone else dealing with varying signs of the apocalypse these days!
Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 01/10 at 09:02 AMalthough i said self-induced i did not say over-eating is the sole cause. that may be one cause of many. eating poor quality food, as you have pointed out, may be one reason. another may be lack of proper exercise. no one seems to walk anymore being one important factor in that.
Posted by michael on from scotland 01/10 at 09:03 AMI was simultyping with #6 and #7. I guess I’m too close to the situation to really comment on it.
Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 01/10 at 09:07 AMAfter reading the excellent posts and related links a couple of days ago about our intentions for Iran, I guess I wasn’t surprised to see one of MSNBC’s top stories here: http://tinyurl.com/cwwjk.
Let the games begin…Posted by suzanne on from 01/10 at 09:24 AMMichael #9, Not walking is a big problem and our modern suburbs do nothing to help this. So many places are only reasonable reached via motorized vehicle. Not to say it’s TOO far to walk, but certainly beyond a nice stroll. It’s a stark difference that also exists more in North America than it does in Europe where the cities and suburbs have a more organic pattern of expansion.
James, I hope nothing I said was insulting - not at all my intention and I can empathise with being close to the problem, but perhaps not to the same extent.
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 01/10 at 09:25 AMSure, exercise results in better health outcomes. But it is naive to separate exercise, an individual behavior, from contraints on one’s ability to do it in useful amounts. A parent who must work overtime to support a family in an increasingly exploitative economy probably has little time for substantial and regular exercise. Attacking “fat and lazy Americans who don’t exercise” rather than examining deeper reasons for lack of exercise strikes me as narrow. And a shame coming from the left, which is supposed to identify broader mechanisms of power that affect day-to-day activities like our ability to exercise or eat health food.
As for the constant European examples, in Britain, more than a fifth of the population is obese, which is not that much below the United States. And the demographic differences between Britain and the United States (and more broadly, the EU and the US) make me question the appropriateness of the comparison. Finally, there is an indirect racism in the “Americans are fat and lazy” explanation. After all, the groups who suffer the most from obesity are poor African-Americans and Latinos. The “Americans are fat and lazy” thesis thus seems a backdoor cousin to the “African-Americans and Latinos are lazy and don’t work hard, therefore they have higher percentages of poverty” discourse.
Posted by Kendrick on from 01/10 at 09:35 AMNo, you were fine, Amelopsis, and actually I’m glad you don’t live in Toronto, got bad memories with there, but that’s a long story.
Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 01/10 at 09:36 AMi would suggest that the cultural difference between particulalry the UK and to a lesser extent the rest of the EU, and the US are not as marked as you suggest. hence the similar figures. and i don’t deny that there is a cultural element to that. there is a car culture as amelopsis was saying.
but if one is aware of this then one must surely take some form of personal responsibility in rectifying it.
i never understood why people would take the care for a 3 mile drive to the gym and back to do a 6 mile run on a machine indoors. i just don’t get it.
Posted by michael on from scotland 01/10 at 09:47 AMJames sorry to hear Toronto treated you poorly - it has a habit of doing that. There are a few things I enjoy doing there, but it’s seldom.
Kendrick I don’t see anyone ‘attacking’ Americans as fat and lazy. In my estimation you’re defending a position that hasn’t been attacked. That said, I think that North Americans (I am among them) make up the largest portion of obese people on the planet. I’m not talking about race or gender, just where on the marble you happen to live. There is always an exeption to every rule, just as there are exceptions to stereotypes. That is a given.
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 01/10 at 09:48 AMoops. i accidentally deleted a bit of previous post so it doesn’t make sense. hold on…
Posted by michael on from scotland 01/10 at 09:48 AMwhat i meant is that due to car culture and working hours and some of the other things mentioned there is a systemic element that leads to some of these problems but awareness of a problem is the first step to a solution.
Posted by michael on from scotland 01/10 at 09:50 AMI finished Fight Club last week, but I don’t know how intelligent any commentary I can muster will be. I’ll try and join in whenever the discussion starts.
Heh, I got to play critic, some film reviews a while back, just covering for other people. “Just say what you think,” said the sub-editor, but I felt really uncomfortable doing it. I know little about film or film production, and it seemed so so wrong to slag something off when I could do no better.
That said, I did slate Thunderbirds without feeling too bad
Posted by Mew on from london 01/10 at 10:27 AMHello all, I’m ignoring diabetes (I have it, I got it from overeating, and I don’t like in the least being stigmatized, preached to, condescended to, or hectored, so leave me out of it).
“...the most incorrigible vice being that of an ignorance which fancies it knows everything and therefore claims for itself the right to kill.”
Camus said it, Suzanne #11, fifty years ago. Our leaders (oy!) have proven time and again that they are ignorant, willfully or not, of the cultures and concerns of those Not Like Us, my dear.
Amelopsis #7: I know more about gout than a few rheumatologists, in fact. I’ve taught my GP what to ask gout patients he treats...the traditional, middle-aged-onset kind...that will help him direct them to possible natural reemdies (black cherry juice is hideously expensive, but for someone in the very earliest stages of gout works like a champ in knocking down symptoms). Twenty-four years and a personal stake in the thing gices one motivation to look around for solutions.
I went in for an exercise regimen in 1991, f/ex, to improve mobility. Backfire. I spent foureen months dealing with weekly attacks of gout after that. I stopped after ten weeks of exercise when the idiot at the gym told me I was “purging the toxins.” No duh, Junior, and it’s playing hell with my life. That was the time I formed the five largest tophus masses.
Walking, while painful, is still the best exercise for me. (I’m terrified of swimming.) It’s also my favorite way to get around! I loved living in Manhattan (no more than five blocks from the World Trade Center for ten years) because no matter where I walked, I was fascinated and intrigued by everything I passed. That never changed in 13 years of living there. The want of affordable housing prevents me from returning. >gusty sigh<
Posted by Mudge on from Dear, dead Austin 01/10 at 10:38 AMA quote to liven things up...so dead in here:
“A king can stand people fighting but he can’t last long if people start thinking.”
Will Rogers, humorist (1879-1935)
Posted by Mudge on from Dear, dead Austin 01/10 at 10:46 AMI’m just checking in to confirm my intention to take part in the Fight Club discussion group. I now return you to your lively health discussions…
Posted by Rev Joe on from 01/10 at 11:08 AMOmigosh, Rev joe, I forgot! Yeah, i’m in, and the 24th is peachy keen by me.
Posted by Mudge on from Dear, dead Austin 01/10 at 11:17 AMI just got home, I’m headed right back out, and haven’t had time to read through all the comments above (I’ll try later). However, I will warn regulars here that “Kendrick” is yet another alias for the same troll who haunts this place (he’s already spent close to three hours here today)...the same kid with an unexplained grudge who created my (sic) Wiki page. Could you imagine spending your meager time stalking a nobody like me?
So, even if “Kendrick” makes a good point or two (more than likely), I personally refuse to respond for reasons he should know and reasons I may eventually share here. Simply put, he and his playmates have lost all credibility in my eyes (and in the eyes of many others, trust me on that). Even this comment is far more than I ever wished to say about the matter.
To the Expendables, I will apologize. Not only for the toxic presence of “Kendrick” and company, but because I fully realized my diabetes comment would require context and was looking forward to a respectful discussion here. Unfortunately, that will have to wait. For now, I have removed that section of my post for two reasons: 1) It was indeed worded insensitively and some of my friends here understandably misread my intentions, 2) It may help keep “Kendrick” and his pals away from the comment board for a little while.
I’m outta here. I might check back later...then again, maybe not.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 01/10 at 11:18 AMoh yeah
i will read it as soon as i get it. won’t take long. the date seems fine
Posted by michael on from scotland 01/10 at 11:18 AMMudge that sounds really shitty, as though you’ve more or less exhausted all your options. I think I might’ve asked you this before, but have you explored any of the different yoga options as far as excercise goes? I wonder if the different purpose to it might have an effect other than more traditional workout options?
Health issues really do have a way of throwing a spanner into the works. I have no small share of a few serious diseases in my family gene pool too. My mother is also more knowledgeable than some neurologists about her disease and by proxy so am I.
Amazing how little some specialists know about their own specialties, and nothing enjoyable about dealing with them generally.I like the Will Rogers quote, and I forgot to say that I love that Dalai Dolly pic that you put in the post Mickey. I’ve always had an admiration for Dolly and her indomitable spirit. No admiration for her more recent cosmetic surgeries though - she looks a little like Jack Nicholson’s Joker now. Should really have stopped at the boob job. (and no, I don’t think boob jobs are a good idea in the first place!)
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 01/10 at 11:26 AMHi Everyone! Sorry I haven’t been participating on the boards very much, works been mucho demanding since xmas break.
Count me in for the Fight Club reading! I’ve actually just read it last year so I’ll review it during the next two weeks.
I’ve got an idea! How about I throw together or find a forum somewhere we can use for Book Klub? It would be nice to keep it separate from Mickey’s daily comments. What do you all think? Maybe I missed previous plans in the comments section the last few days?
Remember forums are friends , not fiends. ;)
Peace and love,
Ack! Captcha is “dead”...
Posted by Luna_C on from the Delta 01/10 at 11:31 AMoooh, much simultyping! I also forgot: the 24th should be fine....book in hand tonight!
double OOOHH!
I should’ve put this in my 7’s list and wanted to put it out there for some future group read consideration: Farley Mowatt’s A Whale for the Killing.
(yes, that’s me putting the cart before the horse)(gotcha on the diabetes discussion, MZ.)
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 01/10 at 11:36 AMPlease count me in for the Fight Club discussion. I hope to find a copy at the library today or tomorrow. I should be able to finish by the deadline, although I might be distracted by the Washington football team as they advance to the Super Bowl. Washington plays the Seattle Seahawks this coming Saturday in the second round of the playoffs. I was reading something in the Washington Post this morning about how the Seattle Times only allows the use of the nickname “Redskins” on first reference. The story reads:
“To avoid insulting native American heritage, the Seattle Times decided to limit severely the use of the term Redskins in the paper—even if a team with that name will dominate news coverage this week. The Times will not use the moniker in headlines or captions. Reporters can use it only once, as a first reference, in all stories. The Redskins will be referred to almost exclusively as Washington—which could get a little confusing for local readers who also live in that state.”
Posted by Mark Hand on from Arlington 01/10 at 11:56 AMOff to meditate. MZ, I figured Kendrick was a troll, his truculence gave him away. Still, “there is no man so ignorant that I cannot learn from him,” huh?
Amelopsis #26: Yoga is a joy and a delight. It, like nothing else I’ve ever experienced, enabled me to be still and find some respite from anger and fear.
And it hurts so much, as of seven years ago, that I had to stop. I tried again last year, and the pain was astounding even to me! This counts as one of the main and most resented thefts this blood bedamned disease has made.
But you’re thinking along the same lines I was! That gives me a good feeling, that I wasn’t just chasing moonbeams after all.
Everybody else...hey, I for one am not mad at anyone...just unwilling to get that way.
Posted by Mudge on from Dear, dead Austin 01/10 at 12:09 PMHi Mark.
Here’s another link about the Redskins you might be interested in: http://tinyurl.com/bc8kw. I grew up in Arlington for the first dozen or so years of my life, and I was born in Washington DC. My dad was a die-hard Redskins fan. He’s probably turning over in his grave right about now.
Posted by suzanne on from 01/10 at 12:15 PMHI everyone...Interesting comments here. I have been being distracted for a while now with other obligations, Court Orders, etc. I had the Alito hearings on in the background this morning. It was interesting to learn that he had supported the strip searching of a 10 year old girl. When questioned about it, he did a typical legal dance. Why do I feel like I need to take a shower after I talk to most lawyers? Recently I have been showering so often, my skin is starting to wrinkle like a prune.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 01/10 at 01:26 PMMZ re 24 - I spend most of my free time stalking you (have you noticed that burly gentleman peering through a copy of the paper with a letterbox sized slit in it?) and will invent some tasteless nonsense about you as soon as I’ve finished my headlines for tonight’s “O’Reilly Factor.”
Jeez, some people - our resident troll seems to have mucho indignance & enjoys lurking, silent as a smelly one. Poor devil, must be terrible for him.
Mudge, I had no idea your condition was so serious. I can only say your fortitude & good humour are inspirational, old bean.
Count me in for the Fight Club shindig - the 24th is fine (I’ve checked my calendar and have no dates with lingerie models for the PM of that day) .
If anyone is game, I am more than happy to return the Wilkie favour for “Kendrick,” if those who know his real name are up for it. Some of you have my email address, heh heh heh ...
(BTW, that’s a laugh of an evil, plotting nature, as opposed to the “mwah-ha-ha-ha” more characteristic of the meglomaniac ... still, nice us lucky Expendables have a choice of evil laugh, no?)
Posted by Chris Wood on from Manchester, England 01/10 at 01:33 PMPS All the best to JOS - hope you’re doing okay, mate.
Posted by Chris Wood on from Manchester, England 01/10 at 01:36 PMBTW, re my suggestion of Wilkepedic kharma for “Kendrick” - beneath is a little shite I wrote for something a while back. Maybe we should enter it for him? (The name Knackers O’Griffith was just some crap I came up with)
K O’Griffith (1893-1922)
Knackers O’Griffith was not a well known author in his life time, and indeed it is only today that his work is beginning to gain the appreciation it deserves. Much of O’Griffith’s short life was spent in warring on the British, and the writing he leaves reflects some of his struggles and patriotism, although not much. He began writing spoofs as a natural development from the love poetry, which he stopped writing when the local community took him a disliking and beat him silly every chance they got.His was not a happy life. Born in County Cork in 1893 to a family of 300 Catholics, his father spent much of Knackers’ childhood in jail, where he had been sent for “disturbing the peace and tweaking himself,” although it is unknown if both incidents occurred at the same time. Knackers was a withdrawn, sickly child, much given to amusing himself with his own thoughts. He was first arrested at the age of 14 for breaking and entering a local brewery and relieving himself into the beer.
Possibly this was the foundation for his inspired resistance by means of hygienic disobedience, wherein active members of the IRA would go without soap and water for many weeks and infest Protestant areas, causing revolt and disgust while talking animatedly about their political cause. Unfortunately, this aspect of the Catholic uprising fell to the wayside when military police rounded up dozens of smelly Catholics and shot them in Derry in 1917. As the average working Catholic man had little chance of being distinguished by smell from the IRA, this proved unpopular.
A change of tactics was called for. O’Griffith’s masterstroke was yet to come, though. In 1918 the IRA had one of its biggest successes, burglarising the barracks of a British Army unit stationed locally and stealing all their bullets. The unit in question was destined for the Western Front and only realised the theft when they arrived in France with no ammunition. To this day, the 22nd Lancers is the only regiment of the British Army to have improvised weapons out of conkers and shout ‘bang’ at the Germans.
Knackers O’Griffith had nothing to do with this. He did, however, supervise the next plan of the campaign, which consisted of an attack at the very foundation of the semi-Christian decency that pervaded Ireland. He and a select band of IRA hitmen took to issuing public profanities. They began in a small enough way, distributing leaflets insulting certain key figures of the British Army and teaching young Protestant boys how to masturbate. This was followed by a malicious gossip campaign, where, in addition to spreading naughty rumours, hit and run gangs would assemble outside military buildings, laugh at the décor and run off down different sidestreets, leaving chaos and devastation in their wake.
The key blow was struck early in 1921, with an infamous event later named the Dunderry Incident. In the centre of crowded Dunderry Square a hidden IRA loudspeaker proclaimed “feck the lot of ye” for over an hour before the culprit with the microphone was identified and handbagged to death.
Apart from his role in the guerrilla element of the resistance, Knackers O’Griffith was also active in the political restructuring of the country. It was he who drew the plans for a united Ireland on Eamon de Valera’s private parts. When the first independent Ireland council summit was held the following year, it was Knackers who was thrown out for chinning the Mayor of Cork’s wife for having “a great fat arse.”Knackers O’Griffith died in 1923 in a gunfight with the British, when he got his pistol the wrong way round and shot himself. His funeral was a huge affair, lasting several years and causing a Guinness drought throughout the South, which led to a restriction in exports of the drink that ultimately led to the great Depression in the USA.
Only one volume of O’Griffith’s writing was published in his lifetime, entitled “Slainte and how I see things.” It was dedicated “to an ungrateful nation,” which indeed appears to have been apt given that the book only sold 57 copies, one to each of his children.
Although his writing doesn’t actually deal with Ireland, or the troubles, he was at the forefront of Irish writers to deal with the troubles, and was described by W B Yeats as “a complete tit.” His body remains in a lay-by outside Derry where those at the wake left it.
Posted by Chris Wood on from Manchester, England 01/10 at 01:41 PMGreat story Chris.
The bit about getting his gun the wrong way round reminds me of the attempted kidnapping of Galen Weston when the Westons had a house in Wicklow. (Weston’s of Loblaws fame in Canada, among other chains)
I shit you not when I say that the IRA were lying in wait along the drive to the house, their plot was foiled when they began firing but injured one another since they were firing from both sides across the driveway...at one another. The Westons were unharmed and promptly sold their Irish abode.
Captcha says “court” but I don’t recall the denouement at that end of the story.Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 01/10 at 02:08 PMStranger than fiction ...
Am off to lower myself to the level of beasts in the field with alcohol. Best to one & all.
Posted by Chris Wood on from Manchester, England 01/10 at 02:17 PMI have said it before, and here I am saying it again: you have not only the best graphics of any blogspot, but also the best quotes, Mickey! I am a Camus person (as opposed to Sartre), so found his quote particularly interesting.
And I have not even got a copy of ‘Fight Club’ yet, so the discussion might have to start without me.
OT: a ‘Christian’ group in Australia has seriously suggested that ‘Brokeback Mountain’ should not be released to the general public but should only be held by video stores and hired out to the ‘homosexual community’ - what do you think, Mudge? Have you seen the film?
And hello to all the other expendables from a wet Daylesford, Australia - we need that rain btw. About 86F are forecast for today - it is 6:28 am on a Wednesday morning in this part of Australia.
Ciao,
HelgaPosted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 01/10 at 02:28 PMRe being fat: yours truly has to plead guilty, and I’m afraid it is because she enjoys her food (and drink) too much. I also embarked on many crash diets when I was in my 20’s although I was by no means overweight then, and that might have messed up my metabolism. Just saying ...
Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 01/10 at 02:33 PMHi Helga - that’s some crazy suggestion about the movie! I’ve not seen it myself but that notion of not releasing it in theatres but making it available to rent is really quite insulting to any movie-goer. Why didn’t they suggest that the Passion of the Christ be treated similarly (due to the graphic violence) and only rent it out to the “christian community”? Good for the goose, good for the gander logic at work.
I truly fail to comprehend the need for Christian groups in western countries to attempt to insert themselves into aspects of life having no other relation to any organised religion.
captcha says “club”
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 01/10 at 02:37 PMOh, and I could not agree more with what you say about walking in Manhattan, Mudge:
‘I loved living in Manhattan (no more than five blocks from the World Trade Center for ten years) because no matter where I walked, I was fascinated and intrigued by everything I passed. That never changed in 13 years of living there.’ Whenever I visited Manhattan, I went on long walks, preferably early in the morning. Our hotel was on East 51st Street, and on some days, I made it down to Union Square and was never bored.Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 01/10 at 02:40 PMOT again: here are the shenanigans of ‘Christian’ groups surrounding ‘Brokeback Mountain’:
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2006/s1544996.htm
In some ways, things are actually worse in Australia than in the US - after all the film has been released in your neck of the woods.Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 01/10 at 02:56 PMAmelopsis, you are making a good point re ‘The Passion of the Christ’ - it seems that that film bombed at the British box-office but I don’t really know how it went in Australia. I suspect it might have done better, as there has been a proliferation of Christian bookshops in this country in recent years - unfortunately!!
Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 01/10 at 03:28 PMCount me in for the Fight Club discussion. I just spent the day lazing around reading Flow My Tears by Phil K Dick, I´m in more of a reading mood this week.
Joe, Calvin and Hobbes was an everpresent in my house growing up. I used to make comics so he was a serious source for me.Posted by Owen on from Barcelona 01/10 at 03:52 PMRe 43 - “The Passion of the Christ” - it did great business in Ireland. A pal of mine saw it in Cork, & said people were weeping & being loudly cathartic ... myself, i waited for the video & soundtracked it with a variety of somewhat irreverent songs ... Bowie’s “Heroes” fits rather well. A very silly film ... torture & love just don’t sit that well together, I have to say.
Very OTT.
Posted by Chris Wood on from Manchester, England 01/10 at 04:14 PMHelga re 39 - I totally sympathise ... food is just so damn moreish. Always carried more than a few surplus pounds, always easily distracted from any dietary plans by something toothsome.
Mind, it’s better to be heavy than joyless. How many beanpoles I’ve known who are without life inside, ah me.
Posted by Chris Wood on from Manchester, England 01/10 at 04:17 PMHelga 38, 42: Brokeback Mountain made me sob and snivel and laugh and chuckle. It was, in short, a good film. I liked the story “Brokeback Mountain” as well...I admire Annie Proulx’s ability to delineate characters in a few deftly chosen snetences. Ennis, played by your countryman Heath Ledger in the film, has a line that (in context) made me embarrass my seatmate (straight married guy, wanted to see the film but his wife said she wasn’t interested): “[When somehting’s broken], f you can’t fix it, you’ve got to stand it.”
>hhhhoooooooooonnnnnnnk< One more Kleenex down....#41: Yeah, it’s the bee’s knees, Manhattan...I’m partial to Rome and Florence, too, GREAT places to go for the evening [i]passegiata...the stroll everybody takes to see and be seen. Barcelona has that, too, right Owen?
Amelopsis #40: My brother called The Passion of the Christ by a more suitable name: The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre. As we walked out of the theater, he said, “Well, now I know what Christian snuff flicks look like.”
Chris #33: Serious? I try to take it lightly. I deserve no praise for looking for ways to overcome my issues without making myself any more of a misery than I can help being, though I appreciate being acknowledged for it! I feel a bit of a fraud, though.
#34: Knackers! you’ve brought the poor bastard back from his deserved obscurity! What of his twin sister, Knickers?
MZ: Note Amelopsis’s comment in #28...perhaps some mechanism to avoid simultyping on the 24th is in order...? I don’t have an idea or I’d share it, I’m not being coy.
Posted by Mudge on from Dear, dead Austin 01/10 at 04:33 PMMudge - too harsh, fella. Take the majority view & realise that for some things, you just have the light.
Posted by Chris Wood on from Manchester, England 01/10 at 05:04 PMMudge as always my sincere best wishes with diabetes and gout and everything life’s throwing at ya… man, all these comments about how awesome walking in manhattan is just motivates me further do whatever I have to to get steady enough work that I can afford to still live here. Overnight shifts, whatever…
So I’m off to it right now!
Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 01/10 at 06:04 PMArright arright I’ll find a copy of Fight Club and read it. Fine. But---not to sound snooty or anything---can the next book be something a bit more, I don’t know, a bit more high-brow. Saramago or so? I know, I know, I’m an awful elitist snob.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague 01/10 at 06:10 PMHello all…
I am back only for a moment…
All is well with me. I am hanging with a crowd of former addicts, con artists, gang members and killers (emphasis on the former) and I feel right at home. I have met some of the most genuine, loving and generous people that I have ever had the honor of meeting. I am working hard on my recovery and am doing a damn good job of it if I may say so.
I am enjoying Chicago, but man, some of the places I have been going are rougher than Sugar Hill in Harlem at 3am on a Saturday morning.
I will be able to tell some stories later (perhaps this Saturday?).
Peace to all...good night.
JOS
Posted by Big MF'in JOS on from Cicero, IL (Al Capone's old hood) 01/10 at 07:39 PMSuzanne-- Thanks for the link to the press release about the vote to change the name of the Redskins. I’m sure your father would be excited about the team’s unexpected success this year.
Posted by Mark Hand on from Arlington 01/10 at 07:44 PMBig MF’in JOS is in the house. All is good…
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 01/10 at 07:49 PMRe Fight Club, I’m in. I pick up my copy tomorrow.
Hi Suzanne. I can’t work out why the Iranians didn’t wait till after the Israeli elections and the Oil Bourse starts up which both happen in March! It’s like the new Iranian President is an “agent provocateur” for the Israelis. Stranger things have happened.
Whatever, he is definitely playing into their hands.I like Camus a lot (from what I remember, anyway) but the man has not stared evil in the face.
Hi Helga, I like your comment on Left I.
Hi Mudge, all I can say is I’m sorry and you have my respect and admiration.
Hi Jos, hang in there man. It’s worth it.
Hi Rosemarie, I know what you mean about those showers. It’s like dealing with aspecial kind of madness.
One last thought: obesity has a lot to do with diet and diet often has a lot to do with depression and depression often has a lot to do with social exclusion and Western Countries, for all their high “average” income, have a lot of poverty and social exclusion. USA coming in first
Oracle says ‘Pattern”. Damned if I can see it
Posted by Jim on from 01/10 at 07:53 PMI was typing when you posted, Jos. FANTASTIC!
Oracle - needed
Posted by Jim on from 01/10 at 07:55 PMMudge - Knickers O’Griffith is alive & well & working as a superhero. Damn those agencies!
Posted by Chris Wood on from Manchester, England 01/10 at 08:45 PMJOS!! Wonderful to hear your cybervoice. I miss you being around!
Chris #56: You’ll need to go some to beat their American burlesque girl cousin, Knockers.
I just got back from my writer’s group, thirteen people showed up (average is six) and most because they thought I was leaving Texas. I was touched. I disabused them of the idea.
I also read Jim’s #54 a clearly stated transitive property of obesity. It’s like a phrase from Fight Club: “There was no real sense of life because she had nothing to contrast it with.”
There is no sense of full, no sense of enough, in a place where there is no sense of empty, or of lack.
I bought this book at 6:50pm, began to read at 7:05pm, and am now (8:27pm) on page 83. It’s safe to say I think it’s gonna make an impression.
Posted by Mudge on from Dear, dead Austin 01/10 at 09:27 PMKeir #50: I give ground to no one in the snobbish, elitist attitudes derby, and I think this book beats anything I’ve ever read by Saramago, or Perez-Reverte, or Pualo Coelho, all hollow. Still think Yourcenar’s Memoirs of Hadrian was a better read than Fight Club, and I can’t say I’d put down a Janet Frame novel for a bash at a Palahniuk (does anyone at all have any idea how to pronounce this alphabet soup?), but this is excellent, excellent writing. Like Orwell’s essays, the writing is “like a windowpane,” and the ideas shine through unobstructed by weeblewobbles and foofaraws.
Posted by Mudge on from Dear, dead Austin 01/10 at 09:35 PMKinda off topic but - ever thought you were being trained at school rather than educated?
Then read this http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/hp/frames.htm
Posted by Jim on from 01/10 at 09:52 PMI’m thrilled to learn how many folks “want” to join in with the collective reading madness and that Mudge is loving the Palahkiuk (PAUL-ah-nik) book. Even more thrilled to hear from JOS.
G’night, all. I will be more involved here tomorrow.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 01/10 at 09:54 PMHi Jim! I can’t even cut-and-paste the link...maybe a TinyURL? Copy the URL again, click on the TinyURL in blue below the comments box, paste the URL into the box that says “make TinyURL” next to it, press that key and presto changeo! Your TinyURL is ALREADY in your clipboard, so you just come back to the comments box and paste it where you want it!
I love that.
And thanks for the respect and admirtation...Chris’s kind urging to go with the majority aside, I still feel a fraud for accepting praise for doing what I think I’m supposed to do anyway.
That’s easily one of the ugliest (stylistically) sentences I’ve ever typed.
Posted by Mudge on from Dear, dead Austin 01/10 at 10:02 PM-
Aahhh, did it! Although probably too late for all you types who live on the wrong side of the world (never mind mind the wrong hemisphere).
Re comments: no worries, Cobber, as we say in Tassie.
It’s about respect for coping with stuff that would send most people over the edge.
Check ya tomorrow.
Posted by Jim on from 01/11 at 02:31 AM
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