Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Wednesday, April 05, 2006
The company Bono keeps
I disagree with you, MZ.
Bono has near single-handedly made the issue of debt-relief in the third world a noticeable issue. He’s put in an enormous effort, the only motive for which is pure humanitarian concern. Bono doesn’t meet with politicians for photo ops. He meets with them to try to get them to do something about the fact that people are starving, sick, and dying in the third world. His work with Paul O’Neill is perhaps the best example.
I would have to agree with Bono that his appearance in a political campaign is exploitative to the max.
From the article you linked, a bit of the rest of the story:
Bono then points out that, under Mr Berlusconi’s government, Italy has dropped to the bottom of the league table of the world’s 22 richest nations for its pro-capita spending on behalf of the developing world. He says Italy would have to more than double its donations by 2010 to honour a commitment it made last year.
“If your commitment is real and your signature is trustworthy, then the world wants to know how Italy intends to reach this target,” Bono states in the letter.
All things considered, if I were Bono, I, too, would protest his being exploited for a political campaign. And rightfully so. More power to him for speaking up about it.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taiwan 04/05 at 05:08 AMYou’re right that Bono should “expect” such treatment, but my point is I wouldn’t suggest that means he should “accept” it.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taiwan 04/05 at 05:10 AMI posted before that Bono said a while back of his meetings with world “leaders” something like: “I work for them now. I´m not going to go shooting my mouth off about the war because I´m interested in helping disadvantaged people,” as if living in a radioactive battlefield is no disadvantage. He may display a little watery rebellion at an easy target like Berlusconi but when it comes down to it he is treating the debt like an act of god he has to wheedle those wily ol gubbermints to cancel when debt is an illusory instrument of economic warfare. The idea that African nations owe anybody anything is grotesque, and we´ve been well-conditioned to believe colonialism is over when Barrick and Anglo are in warpspeed at moment carting materials precious and strategic out of Africa, which is currently being smashed into a series of privately-owned microstates. Too, of the above quote, Bono is keeping his mouth shut in the service of genocidalists and to paraphrase Bill Hicks, every word he says is like a turd falling into my drink.
(While it is nice of him to point out the AIDS mortality rate, he´d find it a bit more efficacious to publicise its laboratory origins and push the priests in labcoats for a cure instead of what we currently use - former cancer drugs that were shelved because of high toxicity)About yesterdays´ discussion, I´m not saying that the way we live is perfect and sustainable, I meant that its unsustainability does not stem from the numbers of people, rather the murderous policies of military governments have been here for how long. Do a little bit of research into the countless sterilisation programmes enacted in the US, Europe and Asia in the last hundred years to find out exactly how threatened the elite feel by the human baby.
Basically we´ve ordered societies to respect groups over individuals - if I take a barrel of crude oil and dump it in a river I will go to jail but if a corporation does it they cough up a paltry fine they take into account for anyway - my solution is we invert this principle and we might start killing less than 200 species a year.In other news, I´m going to plant some thyme and mint on my roof tomorrow.
Posted by Owen on from gyarrcelona 04/05 at 06:58 AMI’d be surprised to hear Bono say what is attributed to him above.
My opinion is that between criticizing Bono for taking issue with his being used in a political campaign or criticizing the using of Bono in a political campaign, I’ll take the latter.
Between criticizing Bono for not doing speaking out enough against the war and criticizing those who waged the war, I’ll take the latter.
I find it pointless, to say the least, to criticize a man who’s done more to help people in need in this world than all of us put together, from charity concerts to his efforts to relieve third world debt.
When I’ve sung with Luciano Pavarotti to bring aid to the victims of the Iraq war and gone to the White House to seek debt relief for starving children in Africa, then perhaps I’ll be in a bit better shape to criticize his shortcomings without becoming a monstrous hypocrite.
But until I’ve accomplished even a tiny fraction of what Bono has with regards to what I consider true to be true religion (that is, what the apostle Paul said was true religion, caring for the widows, orphans, and needy of the world), I, myself, am going to refrain from doing so.
A house divided cannot stand.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taiwan 04/05 at 07:55 AMHello Jeremy and Owen. Let me clarify: I agree that Bono should not accept such treatment...but what the hell did he expect? I love his music and I think his heart is in the right place, but I truly believe his impact is vastly overrated...and I would challenge anyone to prove Bono has “done more to help people in need in this world than all of us put together.”
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 04/05 at 11:12 AMI have always found Bono’s voice, music, and the image he projects repulsive. Never got into any of it. As for his activism (or sub-activism if some of you prefer), I myself can’t reconcile it with the U2 iPod, the photo of him and I think Paul O’Neil in goddamn daishikis, and the inherently racist and commercial nature of the Live Aid concerts last summer. As for his beef with Berlusconi, he’s got a point. But that doesn’t make me trust him one bit.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague 04/05 at 11:22 AMHey, Owen: It’s about thyme you planted some mint.
Where’s Mudge, Hawk, the Empress, Youngfox, Michael, etc.?
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 04/05 at 12:01 PMI’m not really interested in proving that Bono has done more to help people in need in this world than all of us put together. I don’t know most of you all, and I don’t presume to know what any of you have done to help others in need.
So if any person here believes they have done as much as Bono, with fundraising or bringing attention to issues, etc., or if any person here believes all of us together have done so much, please let me know. I’d be happy to give us all a big pat on the back.
Keir, you said that you can’t reconcile Bono’s activism with, among other things, “the photo of him and...Paul O’Neill in gaddamn daishikis”. I don’t see what there is to reconcile. The photo was taken when the two were visiting Africa together. Bono had successfully convinced the former treasury secretary to visit the country and examine the issue of poverty with him.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taiwan 04/05 at 12:10 PMI know you mint that awful pun, M.
Jeremy: “I work for them,” Bono said. “If me not shooting my mouth off about the war in Iraq is the price I pay, then I’m prepared to pay it.”- AP article, Oct 2005. http://tinyurl.com/ht45l The “he doesn’t campaign against it because his main priority is helping the poor and disadvantaged” part was editorialising I´d mixed in with what he´d said. Sorry Jeremy, you don´t get to visit the Oval Office unless you´re a stooge or you give good head, and I hear Bush is more into little boys than vapid rockstars.
(just like poppy: http://www.voxfux.com/features/bush_child_sex_coverup/franklin.htm )
Posted by owen on from gyarrcelona 04/05 at 12:33 PMJeremy, let me clarify my clarification. Firstly, it’s not just who here has done more, I simply do not believe Bono’s impact is nearly as large as you believe. I see no evidence of it. Secondly, even if one were to provide a mathematical formula proving Bono’s vast impact and importance, why would that preclude someone of lesser importance (me) from challenging his methods?
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 04/05 at 12:35 PMI think the question may be...what does debt relief accomplish for the people of those countries? Does it simply give a country’s government a blank slate to continue the same policies? I am not saying I know a better way…
Bono has been able to work with the US and other countries to gather a lot of money for excellent causes, especially in Africa...but if he is working within the current structure (which is flawed and created many of these problems in the first place)...how does this make things better in the long run?
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 04/05 at 12:35 PMinteresting how hard the US is working to oust Chavez when he has an 82% approval rating:
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/print.php?newsno=1934
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 04/05 at 01:37 PMI agree with Jeremy in that Bono has near single-handedly made the issue of debt-relief in the Third World a noticeable issue. So the question arises as to why these countries have debt in the first place and one quickly understands that the whole thing is a scam. The IMF, the World Bank, Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPs) and in fact many highly indebted countries are indeed corrupt regimes which in fact the West instituted and to some extent are still running. Of course I’m not sure how many people actually made the connection so maybe you’re right Mickey...Bono has not done more to help people in need in this world than all of us put together.
Posted by Fiona on from San Diego 04/05 at 02:42 PMI found this issue of Bono’s credibility very confusing while debate was going on here during those G8 concerts. He’s probably done more than I have to help people, because my activism consists primarily of websurfing and chatting on Cool Observer all day, and I’ve hardly left the house in the past couple of days. And he’s most likely more legitimate than Sting, who’s actually appeared in car commercials-- I mean how do you campaign for helping the rain forests and then show up in car commercials, not just letting your songs appear in them but actually being in them yourself?
I really miss the Police. And the Clash, who at least have a good reason for not getting back together. But Sting’s credibility is deader than Joe Strummer to me.
But yeah, what did Bono expect, I’m not really that sympathetic for his being used by Berlusconi like that.
Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 04/05 at 02:53 PM“my activism consists primarily of websurfing and chatting on Cool Observer all day...”
same here! In my opinion, RMJ and Mick (and I’m sure others) have done a lot...in fact, dedicated their lives to the struggle.
captcha:self
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 04/05 at 03:13 PMHi All...I have been away all day and am trying to catch up. About the debts of other nations, I had a conversation about that with John Perkins. It is on the PressAction site, titled “A Conversation with a Hit Man”. Below is a bit of it....
RJ: I really look forward to your next book! Within the past few days there was a news report that Argentina had considered simply not paying its debt to the World Bank. It seems to me, that that is the best way to fix the problem. What would be the downside, if the debtor nations just refused to pay?
JP: You asked the trillion dollar question! During recent elections, six Lat Am nations have voted in candidates opposed to US and/or corp globalization: Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Ecuador, Uruguay, and Venezuela. Many countries are discussing not paying their debts—in fact saying it is not really their debt at all but rather debt imposed on them by the corporatocracy and a few corrupt politicians in their countries who were our puppets. What if they all refused to pay? It is a big “What if” and not likely to happen given the current economic realities and of how most of the world views our power and our ruthlessness. What if journalists like you were able to convince the American public that we should demand debt forgiveness?
RJ: Ah, that is one of my greatest dreams. We have to get the word out to the debtor nations that they will be doing a service to humanity if they refuse to pay. That is the way to protect those in the future from such exploitation.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 04/05 at 04:01 PMThanks for this post, Mickey. I mean - what has Bono actually achieved except turning himself into more of a celebrity? What a dork! And I liked that ‘brown-nosing’ bit - so true.
And hi, Jeremy, Owen, Keir, JOS, Rosemarie and Fiona (here’s a new expendable) from a quite cool (65F today) Daylesford.
If you have the stamina, you can read some of Bono’s other inanities here - as said during an interview on our ABC:
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/enoughrope/transcripts/s1591037.htm
captcha ‘strong’: my dislike of Bono is very strong.Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 04/05 at 04:15 PM‘Sorry Jeremy, you don´t get to visit the Oval Office unless you´re a stooge or you give good head, and I hear Bush is more into little boys than vapid rockstars.’
Precisely, Owen! And what about the ‘abstinence-only’ BS that BushCo are peddling - has Bono ever thought about the effect that has on the spread of AIDS in Africa, to give only one example?Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 04/05 at 04:23 PMI hear that, JOS-- Mickey and Rosemarie sure have it easy, not risking having their words and actions used by Berlusconi like that. I hope Bono’s going to be okay! Now who really bugs me is David Byrne-- I like how he’s often seen bicycling about the streets of the NYC, I mean when was the last time Bono stood up for sustainable transit like that-- but could he just bury the hatchet with the rest of Talking Heads already? Just give the people what they want.
Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 04/05 at 04:37 PM“Same as it ever was...same as it ever was!”
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 04/05 at 04:43 PMIt’s actually a bunch of lines from Life During Wartime that come to mind these days… This ain’t no party, no…
Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 04/05 at 04:59 PMINTERVIEWER: Did George Bush surprise you when you met him?
BONO: Yeah, yeah I liked him a lot more than I thought I would [...] Well, he’s very funny and that took me aback.
INTERVIEWER: What’s George Bush patter?
BONO: I thought he looked rather enviously at my glasses. So I slagged him off about his dress sense. But I rode in one of those ridiculously long motorcades once and he was waving to the people on the street and I said to him, “You’re pretty popular around here aren’t you then, Mr President?” He said, “Wasn’t always so, when I first came to this town, people used to wave at me with one finger.” So, he’s funny.
INTERVIEWER: How did you explain it to the band?
BONO: I’m still explaining it to the band.
INTERVIEWER: How did you break the news?
BONO: The best way I can explain it is that over two initiatives George Bush has signed a cheque worth over 25 billion dollars for issues that I’m working on, which is really serious. 15 billion dollars on an AIDS initiative. Three years ago, four years ago, the idea that a conservative administration of the United States would pay 15 billion dollars to get anti-retro viral drugs to Africans was a preposterous idea. People laughed at me openly, Democrats and Republicans alike. He delivered for me, and Condoleezza Rice who is the person who worked that, she deserves a lot of respect for that. We’ve had disagreements too. I get agitated when the money isn’t coming fast enough. Occasionally he’ll tell me to turn it down. “I’m the President, let me finish my sentence. “ Stuff like that.
INTERVIEWER: What you share in common, of course, is faith.
BONO: Right.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague 04/05 at 06:21 PM“I work for them,” he said, meaning “the poor and disadvantaged.” He’s not saying he works for politicians.
He said he’s made it clear that he doesn’t support the war in Iraq, but he doesn’t campaign against it because his main priority is helping the poor and disadvantaged.
“I work for them,” Bono said. “If me not shooting my mouth off about the war in Iraq is the price I pay, then I’m prepared to pay it.”
But, he added, “I’m a big-mouthed Irish rock star. Of course it frustrates me.”
His point is clearly that if he were to be more vocal in his opposition to the war, it would hurt his efforts to help Africa. That’s probably true, as shitty as it may be.
“Sorry Jeremy, you don´t get to visit the Oval Office unless you´re a stooge or you give good head...” - Owen
I think you’re wrong. Bono goes to the White House to try to get the US government to provide aid to impoverished countries and to seek debt relief. I don’t think those are the actions of a “stooge”.
“Bono has not done more to help people in need in this world than all of us put together.” - Fiona
I’m not aware of any Expendables who, as you acknowledge, have “near single-handedly made the issue of debt-relief in the Third World a noticable issue”, or who have helped to raise millions of dollars in aid, or who have pressured the government to provide aid, or who have been at the forefront of a movement such as the one to provide debt relief for impoverished Africa.
If any of you think any of us, or all of us put together, have done even a fraction of what Bono has to help the needy of this world, I’d love to hear about it.
“I mean - what has Bono actually achieved except turning himself into more of a celebrity? What a dork!” - Helga
I don’t think it’s dorky to expend efforts successfully fundraising and lobbying the government to provide debt relief to impoverished African nations. I think it’s highly admirable.
Would that so many of Bono’s critics do the same.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taiwan 04/05 at 09:15 PMI’m just not sure what debt relief will accomplish Jeremy. Sure we can throw around statistics that inform us that 23 African countries spend more money on debt repayment than they spend on healthcare. On average I think these countries probably spend 5 times as much servicing its debt than it does in providing health care services. However, I think it’s incorrect to assume that these corrupt regimes will now start spending the money on the poor people as opposed to stuffing their own pockets and there rich friends. Why do you think the rich bankers loaned the governments the money in the first place?
Posted by Fiona on from San Diego 04/05 at 10:40 PMThe answer to your question is that the loans were made in the first place to put these nations in an endless cycle of debt.
RMJ interviewed John Perkins, whose book is a great resource on that very issue.
You raise a good point, which is that corrupt regimes in many of these nations serve themselves and the elites of those nations, rather than the people.
But that’s a different issue, a different problem, with different solutions.
Right now people are dying of hunger, thirst, and malnutrition. Part of the reason why is because their nations, as you just acknowledged, spend more repaying loans than feeding people.
An obvious solution to that problem is debt forgiveness. Hence the appropriately named Jubilee campaign.
To argue that we shouldn’t forgive debt to impoverished nations because corrupt regimes will continue to take advantage of the people anyways is fallacious.
In fact, it reminds me of the argument which uses the logic that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the deaths of so many Iraqis as a direct result of sanctions, more than half a million children, according to UNICEF.
There are things WE are doing to hurt other people. We might not be able to control what the Saddam Hussein’s of the world do, but we absolutely can control what WE do to people less fortunate and priveleged in this world.
We should be spending more effort helping Bono, not criticizing him or calling him names.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taiwan 04/06 at 12:04 AMJeremy’s right-- we shouldn’t be mocking Bono so much… not when the Onion’s done it so well already:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/26859
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/43192
Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 04/06 at 03:47 AMIf any of you think any of us, or all of us put together, have done even a fraction of what Bono has to help the needy of this world, I’d love to hear about it.
While I do believe I would do far more with the high profile platform he has, the point here is not to compare myself with Bono (or anyone). I simply do not see the evidence that he has done nearly as much as Jeremy implies. And—again—even if he did, why is it verboten to question his tactics?
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 04/06 at 05:42 AMI don’t doubt at all, MZ, that if you were in Bono’s position, you would accomplish a lot more than he has. But that, as you say, is really a moot point.
Bono is a person who has used his celebrity to bring focus to important issues. Very few bands have had such a political focus as U2 has had. I respect that about the band.
Bono has used his position to raise money for the needy, and lobbies ceaslessly to get the government to provide funds to combat AIDS, as well as to relieve third world debt.
The guy can’t be Amnesty International. He’s accomplished a great deal, from singing with Luciano Pavorati to raise money for the victims of Sarejevo and Iraq to dragging Paul O’Neill on a trip to Africa to survey the situation and encourage government involvement.
I think we should look more at his accomplishments, which I’m willing to guarantee far outweigh anyone else’s here (with all due respect to the wonderful Expendables, I certainly speak of myself, as well).
As far as questioning tactics, I highly encourage it. Constructive criticism is essential to furthering our many causes for peace, justice, etc. Strengthening areas where weaknesses lie is crucial.
Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s what I’ve witnessed here.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taiwan 04/06 at 05:58 AM
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