Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Friday, June 16, 2006
We're all "potential criminals"
Happy sunny morning to all… I like the graphic but cannot see the video. I am on slow dial-up.
Article 4 from Nuremberg DOES make us all criminals. International law requires us to resist our government when it is committing war crimes. That is one of the points I made in my sentencing speech. We all have a moral choice to make every day. We can either be with the occupiers or with the occupied.
The interview with Ramsey Clark is great. Clark has been ignored by the Press. If they had covered him, it might have made a difference. One of the “wow points” during my appeal in front of the State Supreme Court was when the Prosecutor said that he could not allow the sign that I held during the protest to be seen by the jury because he did know where the information on the sign came from. We answered that it came from former Attorney General Ramsey Clark.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 06/16 at 07:07 AMHello all...it’s positively chilly here today, the high will barely break 90F! A propos today’s theme, I offer the following:
“One of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the great struggle for independence.”
--Charles A. Beard, historian (1874-1948)There are no new problems. Human behavior is the only real problem we got.
Posted by Mudge on from Austin, Texas 06/16 at 07:09 AMGood morning, Mudge and RMJ...hey Mick.
You have to admire the Republicans for this move that will show that Democrats are War Mongers too:
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 06/16 at 10:01 AMeh they´re just heads of the same hydra anyhoo. I´m guessing the political candidates will have to be Siamese twins before the public catch on that democracy is the unwiped ass of a devilish con game.
Posted by owen on from barcelona 06/16 at 12:06 PMI think I can deal with rejection, Mickey! However, I am NOT going to reject your books - ever. Only two weeks to go to July and .. an order from Australia.
And ‘hi’, Rosemarie, Mudge, JOS and Owen - it is 3:33 am on a Saturday morning in Daylesford, Australia but seeing I went to bed really early last night, I am fully awake. I hope you all have a fantastic weekend.
Auf Wiederemailen,
HelgaAnd temperatures will be around the 40F mark here, Mudge.
Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 06/16 at 12:33 PMHello Expendables...from sunny, warm Astoria. It might hit 90 degrees this weekend.
I think the point behind my main post was to get us thinking about the consequences of our silence and inaction. I’m not keen on chalking it all up to “human nature” (whatever that might turn out to be) but instead to an overall society that seems to have lost its collective mind.
Helga: Your enthusiasm toward ordering my books is much appreciated.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 06/16 at 01:05 PMI don´t buy the “human nature” angle either, tis a cop-out to go chalking wilful decisions up to “hey it sez so in our blueprint.”
Here is one of the best pieces I´ve read in a while, an excerpt from a book by a German-American journalist about how Germans were lead in almost imperceptibly tiny yet steady steps towards dictatorship:
http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.htmlPosted by owen on from barcelona 06/16 at 04:54 PMDead on, Owen. I got this from your link:
“To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it - please try to believe me - unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, “regretted,” that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these “little measures” that no “patriotic German” could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 06/16 at 05:13 PM>>I don´t buy the “human nature” angle either, tis a cop-out to go chalking wilful decisions up to “hey it sez so in our blueprint.” <<
No. That’s not the argument at all. The argument is that whatever your blueprint says is what you do, until and unelss you see the point of doing something different.
I see y’all’s argument that we should instead look for explanations of human horribleness to “...an overall society that seems to have lost its collective mind” as the complete cop-out. There is no such thing as “society” as a distinct entity that can take intelligent action. Society is us, laddies and gentlewomen; we behave in certain (usually unpleasant) ways and the collective results of that process are labeled “society” or “culture” or whatever.
Don’t put the onus of copping out on me. Look in your mirrors. “The Government” isn’t to blame for Iraq; you are. I am. Our collective inaction/ineffective action let this horror show ring up the curtain on a hideous debacle.
“Society” can’t act, it’s not a coherent (in theoriginal sense of the word) entity. “Society” is an analytical tool used by sociologists, anthropologists, and archaeologists to get their hands and heads around a collection of data point.
Posted by Mudge on from Austin, Texas 06/16 at 05:17 PMOh if that seemed I was putting any copout onus on you, I didn´t mean to Mudge. You said “human behaviour”, which I´d consider alongside “wilful decision”.
Posted by owen on from barcelona 06/16 at 05:27 PMJust have a second here at a wonderful Friday night shift of work I picked up to point out that I’m not ganging up on Mudge; it’s just not in my human nature blueprint to do so, whatever that’s supposed to mean. Have they paid us reparations yet? Or at least medical benefits? Gets so hard to keep track…
Did enjoy the Og stories by the way; if I’m ever really wake up I’ll say so further. But they don’t pay me well enough to fully wake up here.
Posted by James on from work 06/16 at 06:00 PMNot scapegoating you, Mudge. It’s just that “society” is not so monolithic. Sure, it’s me and you...but me and you don’t control the media, the culture, the mindset. That’s no cop-out. I accept blame for my tiny role but let’s be clear here: people like us play no role in setting the murderous agenda other than going along with it or not having the nerve to take effective action to stop it. I’ll plead guilty to that but not for creating the culture that is killing life on Earth.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 06/16 at 06:16 PMOwen #7...very good link.
Mickey #8...I have often compared the state of humanity in this culture to that of a crab being placed in a pot of water with the heat being turned on very slowly. (Apologies to the vegans for the cruel mental image.)
Mudge #9...“The Government” isn’t to blame for Iraq; you are. I am....” That’s what I’ve been saying all along.Hi James, JOS, and Helga.
This discussion reminds me of the fact that some of those Tried during the Nazi War Crimes trials were very well respected men, upper middle class, hard working, family men---no different from so many in our culture today. Most of us have some of “Eric Dorff” in us. Remember him, the character in the film, the Holocaust? He became a Nazi to pay the rent for his family. We can blame defects in our genes, or blame the evil influences of the culture, but to me it all boils down to the simple fact that sooner or later everyone must accept responsibility for the life he/she chooses to live. Free will versus Determinism---philosophically I don’t know for sure about which side I’d come down on there. But if we excuse us (ourselves) from all responsibility, then we must also excuse everyone else. That makes the universe even more chaotic and evil than it already is.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 06/16 at 06:28 PMMickey # 12...You are saying that there are degrees of guilt. That is for sure. The one who drops a cluster bomb on a village is certainly more responsible than someone who just supports the war by paying his taxes. It’s just a matter of degree. Both are guilty. One of my friends in VFP says that the only way to be completely free of all guilt would be to commit an act of self-immolation.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 06/16 at 06:41 PMNot before I get health insurance! But I guess that would defeat the purpose of such act…
Posted by James on from work 06/16 at 07:52 PM@ Mudge: If I may say so, you are the ultimate cynic… Too bad you gave up like so many others. But that’s something you have to live with, not me: I still have an ounce of hope…
@ ALL: Guilt is among all of us. If you’ve ever jaywalked or ran a red light then you know what I’m talking about. In the end, we’re all “criminals”...
Peace out, y’all.
Posted by RT on from The Buyou City 06/16 at 08:48 PM
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