Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Thursday, June 22, 2006
Derrick Jensen sez: "We need not hesitate any longer"
the section about unlearning I liked a lot, but all the fightin talk turns me off a bit. I´d read more sections that didn´t have so much war language, like Phil K Dick sez that´s how an empire proliferates like a virus, whoever fights it becomes it.
Posted by owen on from barcelona 06/22 at 06:42 AMHey Owen. This is a two-volume book, with nearly 1000 pages...so, of course, my few excerpts do not do it justice. Still, I think by fighting something, you automatically become it. just one example: the Empire fought peace and solidarity movements in places like Nicargua and East Timor without becoming anything like those movements.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 06/22 at 07:16 AMGood morning Mickey and Owen…
The debate is between those who would allow for NO violence and those who would advocate for a limited amount of force needed to bring about change. MY view on this is---I understand those who want NO violence, I understand those who would be willing to do whatever it takes to bring about change, But I do not understand those who believe that change can be brought by doing “only what is allowed”. It seems to me that doing whatever is allowed has already been proven to be ineffective.
The argument becomes clear when one makes a distinction between aggressive action and the actions which are the result (or the blowback) of the original aggression. It seems crystal clear to me. There is a big difference between an “aggressor” and the victim of the aggression. It also seems to me that there is moral duty to protect others from aggression. I came to this belief relatively late in life after living most of my life as a total pacifist and believer in total non-violence. Below is a report from Tuesday, in case anyone missed it...........
Three nuclear protesters arrested Tuesday at a Minuteman III missile launch facility west of Garrison when they unlawfully entered the
area, remain in the McLean County Jail in Washburn Wednesday.The three, Greg Boertje-Obed, 51, and Michael Walli, 57, both military
veterans from Duluth, Minn., and Carl Kabat, 72, a retired priest from St.
Louis.McLean County Sheriff Don Charging said the three are being charged with
criminal trespass and criminal mischief, both Class A misdemeanors, and
bond was set at $500 each. He said the FBI is involved in the case and
federal charges are pending..The space wing operates, maintains and controls 150 Minuteman III missiles
in underground launch facilities in northwest and north-central North
Dakota. The three individuals unlawfully entered the Echo-9 missile
launch facility at about 10 a.m. Tuesday.“The individuals used bolt cutters (to cut the lock) to gain access to the
site. Once inside, they attempted to destroy government property using
hammers and by posting graffiti,” Finan said. More specifically, she said
they “took a hammer and beat on some of the external components, then they
sprayed graffiti in several different locations and hung some signs.”The Wisconsin-based Nukewatch group, of which the three men are
volunteers, reported the three men entered the missile silo area and
painted “It’s a sin to build a nuclear weapon” on the face of the hardened
silo cover and poured their blood on the missile lid.”Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 06/22 at 08:19 AM‘I do not understand those who believe that change can be brought by doing “only what is allowed”.’
Right on, RMJ. Ghandi’s form of non-violence was powerful...and definitely not “allowed.” I’ll have to read Jensen’s book (I’ve read pretty much everything else he’s written) and see what sort of fighting back he is advocating.
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 06/22 at 09:22 AMHello again, Expendables.
RMJ: It isn’t often I quote Christopher Hitchens these days but something he said during the first Gulf War stood out to me. Hitchens was against that war and was promptly (and laughingly) accused of being a pacifist. He replied (and I paraphrase): “I am not a pacifist. I believe there are instances when pacifism is immoral.”
JOS: I was planning a Gandhi-related post for tomorrow. He’s a tricky, all-purpose quote machine. He said stuff that makes him sound 100% non-violent, other stuff that leaves the door wide open for violent actions, and other times, he just sounds like an idiot (e.g. suggesting Jews in Nazi camps should commit mass suicide or believing Hitler could be changed by writing him a letter).
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 06/22 at 09:31 AMSure...and I wouldn’t agree with his views on women or sex. But, wow, the way he motivated an entire country against an oppressive government was amazing.
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 06/22 at 09:49 AMI’m with you on that, JOS...with one caveat: Gandhi’s efforts were part of a long, arduous, and sometimes violent movement. Same story with Dr. King. Neither did it alone.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 06/22 at 09:50 AMCould lives have been saved if Gandhi’s methods and the very long struggle there had been shortened by a more “powerful” type of resistance?
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 06/22 at 10:07 AMyou’re tright there, Mick. I still get sucked in by the myth sometimes.
I don’t know, RMJ. But the more I hear from you lately the more I picture you as a leader of an underground movement with plans for revolution.
I’m with you!
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 06/22 at 12:30 PMhello all
RMJ , remind to respond to that gandhi comment. can’t now.
Posted by michael on from exile 06/22 at 01:54 PMJOS # 9… Who, me? I’m just a sweet lil’ old Grandma (well sometimes, I am).
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 06/22 at 02:16 PMThanks for another funny/enlightening post with great graphics, Mickey! Am I repeating myself or what? Have forwarded the ‘gay animal kingdom’ post to various gay friends already and will now read your review.
And ‘hi’ to Owen, Rosemarie, JOS and Michael from a very wet Daylesford where it is 6:32 am on a Friday morning.
Ciao expendables ..
Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 06/22 at 03:32 PMWhere the empire gets its power:
“By the age of six the average child will have completed the basic American education. ... From television, the child will have learned how to pick a lock, commit a fairly elaborate bank holdup, prevent wetness all day long, get the laundry twice as white, and kill people with a variety of sophisticated armaments.”
--Russell Baker, columnist and author (1925- )
No power last night...over 90F at 11pm...no breeze...still sweating even though a/c is set on stun and has been all day long.
Gay animals, ROFL, gay anything really...just a social definition about 130 years old, define something and remove its power.
Off to sleep in front of three fans.
Posted by Mudge on from Austin, Texas 06/22 at 08:18 PMHey Mudge, remember: You have way more than three fans here.
Stay cool…
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 06/22 at 08:19 PM
Next entry: Bush joins U2, Gandhi gets violent, plus: Israeli logic, Thai bathrooms, & Sherlock Holmes
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