Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Monday, October 02, 2006
Apoca-Links Now
Good morning, Mickey. Yes, it looks like it is going to be just one of those days. I just found out on the news that the reason that I still have no access to my e-mail is because the building where my ISP is located burned down yesterday. I don’t know if I will ever get that “hot” e-mail. It couldn’t have happened at a worse time.
Jensen says that there is a lot for each of us to do. I agree, but what could any one of us do that would really change things?Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 10/02 at 06:59 AMMorning all...off to work early because it’s the second day of training. Trained 10 people Saturday, I’m betting 8 come back.
A five-day notice period is just not enough, but what the hell. Hope all y’all are doing well,
xoxo
MudgePosted by Mudge on from Austin, Texas 10/02 at 08:03 AMHey Mickey, what’s up? I’ve gotta send you an email sometime soon and catch up. Sadly, I’m not in Astoria anymore.
I spent some time away from any kind of leftist thinking. I think I became disgusted with the Left after our complete failure to stop the invasion of Iraq. I also found myself absorbed in my own little life, but a few things woke me up. I think the main one was when Isreal started bombing Lebanon.
I started reading John Zerzan, and that really shook me to my core. I didn’t realize in my contept for the Left I could just outflank it. Now I am reading more anti-civ stuff and its like I am free to feel what I have secretly felt since childhood. I just read your link on the oil peak (well, part 1 anyway) and my mind is blown. I’m sitting in my stupid cubicle on Wall Street right now and rethinking my life. I gotta check out some Derrick Jensen I’ve seen quoted around here lately. Anyway, I’ve been reading your blog every day for a few months, and thought I would actually say hi. Hello to all of you who read and post comments here as well.Posted by Brian Howard on from The belly of the beast 10/02 at 08:25 AMGood morning RMJ, Mudge, Brian and Mickey,
I still have some links to get to, but I came across that Indian tiger update yesterday and was thoroughly disgusted. While I realise the Asian trade in animal parts doesn’t exist in a vaccuum, I can’t help but feel like deriding that aspect of the culture that appears to see no other value in our fellow creatures.
RMJ - that’s some really unfortunate news for you. Maybe some webmail account is a safer option given your luck in that department?
dw: from last night - You’ve totally lost me in referring to me ‘sneering’ you and the reference you make to my blog.
Really.
I certainly didn’t imply or assume that any of your comments were typed ‘especially for me’; I simply stated my opinion on the matter which everyone is free to agree or disagree with.
...And...at the risk of seeming oversensitive myself, I take exception to your insinuating that my claim of simultyping is disengenuous. I really don’t have time to be that way, and if I did, this is the last place I’d excercise that ability.The other day JOS expressed quite well the wonderful qualities of Mickey’s little corner of the internet and why the Expendables here find it so enjoyable a place to be; I’d add to that the genuine and frank nature of everyone’s comments and don’t think it’s in anyone’s interests to compromise the particular brand of respect and honesty that’s shared here.
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 10/02 at 09:01 AMHello Expendables from sunny Astoria.
Great to “see” you again, Brian...but Wall Street? You’ll have to tell that story here on a Saturday, okay? As for Jensen, yes, please read Endgame.
RMJ: Good luck with the ISP issues.
Mudge: Good luck with the training.
Empress: Thanks for speaking your mind. I appreciate it.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 10/02 at 09:12 AMAmelopsis, from yesterday:
Some serious awareness is in order, and I think that there’s a great deal more truth in the statement that Jeremy makes than just a passing observation on the dogma of organised religion.
Yes. That’s correct. It was not justa passing observation on the dogma of organized religion. I could get into it at length, but will refrain from doing so.
MZ, your Vonnegut quote reminds me of a Far Side comic. You know, the one where there’s a broken jar on the ground and a naked Adam and Eve running away from it, with God hovering above them saying, “Whoops!”
My all time favorite: the one where there’s an upside down box propped up on one side with a stick. A rope tied to the stick leads inside the box, where you can see two pairs of feet. A saber-tooth tiger is walking up over the hill towards the box. A voice from the box says: “Shh, Zog! Here come one now!” That’s hilarious. I know, I’m easily amused.
It also brings to mind my favorite Ghandi quote, his response to a question asking what he thought of Western civilization: “I think it would be a good idea.”
What an awesome, beautiful video of the shark!
Peak oil. Important topic. Needs discussion.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taipei 10/02 at 09:20 AMGood morning everyone.
I have a quick comment to make on Peak Oil… it seems to me that the world isn’t running out of oil, per se, it’s that the oil companies are running out of places where they can extract oil and make the same level of profits that they’re accustomed to.
Basically, I just think of all the things that might do in the human race, running out of oil isn’t gonna be one of them. Our continued use of oil might contribute, however.
Posted by Banta on from Inner Circle of Hell 10/02 at 09:42 AMAh Jeremy that’s one of my favourite Ghandi quotes too, the little man had a sense of humour
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 10/02 at 09:45 AMBanta you make a very pertininent point...Alberta’s oil sands now being a hive of activity are a prime example of this. Oil companies are grudgingly having to accept a few less billion on their trillions per annum profit levels.
A “future“‘s a terrible thing to waste.
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 10/02 at 09:50 AMThis is the blog I was referencing: 8.9.06
Counterculture? Ame: I don’t want argue with you or anyone else, either. But it’s not fair disagreement to simply say things are way too complex and there’s no time to get into it on here, esp. if you’re challenging an opinion. Let me just say something first though. I may not be correct about this but which Expendable is a Physicist? I am not. I can’t even spell it. Their minds are far superior than most. It’s foolish to even pretend to be in their league. Let’s leave the really complex, hard-scientific evidence and specific QM formulas alone.Posted by dw on from ohio 10/02 at 09:57 AMI watched a little bit of the movie Ghandi last night.
RMJ asks what can we do to change things and then Ghandi is mentioned. Looks like a good day to discuss violent vs. non-violent resistance.
I feel I’ve made a pretty significant shift away from pacifism over the past year or so.
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 10/02 at 10:00 AMdw, I am not sure what the disagreement is, but I am pretty sure Amelopsis hasn’t sneered at anyone. As for physics or any other subject, leaving those discussions to the scientists is part of the reason why we are where we are today.
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 10/02 at 10:05 AMMarshall McLuhan wrote that he had a quantum-physicist friend who used to bring his most complex problems to children to help him solve them as the children weren´t so muddied with unhelpful conditioning. As for leaving the complex problems to the nice men in white coats, any scientist who cannot communicate what he or she is working on with someone of zero academic training is a bad scientist, nothing more.
Posted by owen on from barcelona 10/02 at 10:12 AMOK forget the sneer. I’m sorry. Maybe nobody is holding me in contempt. I’m being too sensitive/defensive, I confess! Maybe what I see as recalcitrance y’awl see as something else. JOS, you’re right about that. I was just saying that most of us can’t engage in debate about what physicists actually study. We should speak out though if they are espousing something destructive.
Posted by dw on from ohio 10/02 at 10:18 AMRe Jensen
RMJ what you’re asking is do we have the guts and the heart to stop them? No I don’t think so (and I’m including Jensen). I don’t think any of the people that are familiar with his work are now going to start blowing up cell phone towers, parking lots, dams, etc. If Jensen honestly thinks we are going to start doing these things I would agree he is too optimistic.
Also, I agree with Banta in that there’s a shit load of oil out there it’s just going to take lots, and lots of money to extract it.
Posted by Fiona on from San Diego 10/02 at 10:21 AMThe guard goes up automatically in people at the very hint of self-righteousness. Every thought is repelled off an imaginary wall. This is what I am observing after a few of your candid comments, which expressed a lack of interest in the movie.
Posted by dw on from ohio 10/02 at 10:41 AMJOS and Owen I’m in full agreement with you on not leaving complex matters to those that might be qualified by some as our ‘betters’ (or any other such descriptive). Their minds are by no means superior to anyone else’s, it’s a simple matter of learning.
Mickey recently reminded me of a wonderful quote which I think is topical to the conversation:“I am somehow less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s
brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and
died in cotton fields and sweatshops.”
--Stephen Jay GouldAnyway I had to step away and so this comment is now quite probably a few comments behind…
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 10/02 at 10:49 AMYou never know what could happen:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/e-bomb.htm
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 10/02 at 11:00 AMAme, JOS, Banta, Jeremy, Mick, OR ANYONE ELSE: On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the most self-righteous, where would you say I rank on that scale of self-righteousness? Please give at least two words or a simple sentence explaining why you give me the rank that you do. I PROMISE not to pat myself on the back or be scornful, either way.
Posted by dw on from ohio 10/02 at 11:12 AMBanta’s correct in noting that we’re not about to run out of oil. However, it’s not as simple as that oil companies just aren’t going to make the same profits they’re used to, either.
There’s lots of oil in the ground still. But it’s becoming increasingly hard to get out. Oil companies pass off increased R&D, discovery, assessment, production, etc. costs onto consumers, so that’s not the issue. The issue is that oil products, the gasoline you put in your vehicle first and foremost, will become increasingly expensive.
Everyone gripes about high gas prices. But that’s just the very tip of the iceberg. Think of the shipping industries, and how it will affect them. It’s not about how it affects our individual pocketbooks, it’s about the global economy.
Here’s a thought: Look at a graph of world population. You’ll see a gradual increase over most of the course of history, and then, with the advent of the age of oil, a very sudden and dramatic spike. How was this population explosion achieved? Simple: Cheap energy.
Second question: How is this population sustained? Simple. Cheap energy.
Third question: What will happen once there is no longer cheap energy available to sustain that population?
There’s a lot of talk about alternative energy sources, but the fact is that none of the sustainable sources are currently even remotely close to being able to compensate our energy needs. Certainly, the potential is there, but it ain’t happenin’ anytime real soon.
In the meantime, we’re burning coal for electricity, polluting the atmosphere. More coal will be burnt to offset the affects of peak oil.
We’ve discussed nuclear energy recently here. Everyone knows the that the notion of “clean” nuclear energy is a myth.
There’s lots of oil left in the ground, but the major reserves have been found and exploited. The US peaked production in the 70s. Many other major oil producing regions have followed. Discovery peaked many decades ago, well prior to the peak of production in the States.
Oil will continue to become harder and more expensive to get out of the ground. It’s not a matter of oil companies making fewer profits. It’s a matter of sustaining a global economy totally dependent upon cheap energy, particularly oil.
Oil companies will merge, there will be buy-outs as smaller, weaker companies become unsustainable. Other companies will adapt and diversify with other energy sectors, including sustainable energy, while oil production will grow increasingly the responsibility of a few large global corporations who have the technological capability and financial base to be able to continue to get the oil out of the ground.
The increasing costs to do so will be passed off to consumers. Prices will continue to increase, until the day comes when people can’t afford to pay for gas to get to work. Airlines will go out of business (already are). Shipping companies will, too.
The consequences are not hard to foresee. Econcomies will be depressed, there will be massive inflation, the dollar will continue to sink.
We are facing a potentially catostrophic crisis, unlike we’ve ever known in the history of mankind.
I’m not trying to sound like an alarmist, but I think it’s something that needs to be taken quite seriously, and I would strongly discourage anyone from dismissing it.
There are solutions, and I don’t think it is inevitable. However, I strongly feel that if we don’t change course immediately, it will soon be.
(And I didn’t even get into the potential environmental consequences of our present course....)
Posted by Jeremy on from Taipei 10/02 at 11:23 AMDW: The fact that you asked that question means your not.
Personally I think peak oil is a crock. Oil companies are notorious for manipulating prices on a whim. the peak oil theory is just another way for the globalists to jerk society around if we get out of line. They know as well as all of us on this board do that they hold the public by the short hairs. “peak oil” is another convenient excuse to jack prices around or even collapse an economy.
But that doesn’t change the fact that society needs to kick the stuff like a bad crack habit. We can’t keep operating like this or “peak oil” or not we’re all going down the poop hole. I do think that we have stable alternative energies. There are many people even communities that are doing just that. What scares the oil companies more then “peak oil” is the fact we might not need them to live perfectly reasonable and healthy lives. Society has always had an alternative to oil/coal as energy sources. The problem is the best and most effective ones you can’t charge for. You might as well call the history of the oil economy as the history of alternative energy suppression. The best way for a society to solve it’s energy problem is to first get everyone in that society to generate there own power. If every house could even generate 25% of the energy they consume that would be a tremendous stride. Not to mention just cold stopping the US’s military industrial complex. If that alone happened “peak oil” wouldn’t even be a viable argument real or not.
Love you all,
LunaPosted by Luna_C on from the Delta 10/02 at 11:47 AMJeremy,
I don’t really disagree with the concept of what you’re saying, but I do disagree on some of the specifics and the timetable of this all happening. Mostly, in a world where oil companies just posted record profits for the last year and yet oil production has peaked in the 70s (a claim that I believe has only ever been made by people with close ties to the oil industry itself), I really believe we have a long way to fall before the current system becomes so unsustainable that it destroys the rest of the world economy.
I don’t have the exact figures in front of me, but the markup there is on a barrel of oil, from production to what it’s sold as at even bulk prices is completely ridiculous. This is only my opinion and you’re certainly entitled to disagree because my confidence level in this isn’t THAT great anyway, but I expect that the sustainability of the current economic system could survive at least 100 more years and, to actually be more of an alarmist than you, I’d imagine that something else will have done us in by then.
I guess what I’m saying in general is I don’t really see the point in getting wrapped up in the oil crisis too much. It’s just another symptom of a sick society and individually solving that problem will do nothing.
dw, I don’t know if you’re self-righteous or not, but might I humbly suggest that it’s not particularly healthy to care about what people on a message board think of you? Or people in general for that matter.
Posted by Banta on from Inner Circle of Hell 10/02 at 11:51 AMLuna,
Yes, I think that Peak Oil is a crock as well, but that doesn’t mean that the oil corporations won’t proceed in the way that Jeremy outlined. I just don’t think they’re gonna be wiling to collapse the global economy at any point in the near future. Seems bad for business.
Your points about alternative energy are spot on. Really, the only way that we can save ourselves from a bleak future is an alternative energy source that is almost ridiculously practical. I’m basically talking about something that has almost “alchemical” properties and is so easy that everyone could build a generator with little cost and little expertise.
Now that might sound a bit crazy, but I don’t think it’s impossible.
Posted by Banta on from Inner Circle of Hell 10/02 at 12:02 PMactually, I did this as a little experiment. The OPPOSITE of self-righteousness actually means sinfulness and wickedness. To be self-righteous is a good thing. But we don’t see it this way initially and sometimes ever. A self-righteous person is actually a virtuous person. I’m like many of you though. I always understood it as something negative. But that’s not the real definition.
Posted by dw on from ohio 10/02 at 12:05 PMThis is bizarre but after just realizing this about self-righteousness I thought I would do a little google search ‘self-righteousnes wikipedia.’ The very first definition comes up ‘Lisa Simpson’, as in the ‘Simpsons.’ As in this is Wiki’s definition of self-righteousness. I was into learning about the Gen X’ers one morning a couple days ago for some reason. I noticed a funny quote that I posted on MZ’s post. It was a quote from Lisa Simpson.
Posted by dw on from ohio 10/02 at 12:17 PMHello to dear Husband, to Amelopsis, Mickey, RMJ, Brian Howard-- who sounds to be in a similar position as I am lately, at work and elsewhere… just a minute here at lunch before must get back to “Steve” (work), but now to follow up to yesterday, with what I’m reading and listening to-- my book club is in the middle of Sartre’s Nausea, which is far from perfect as either a work of fiction or philosophy, but it’s a good place to start and an exercise in any case.
As to music, this is feeling all too appropriate these days, do enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiqKdNB5dWc
Hope you guess my name… CatLady in Hell’s Kitchen
Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 10/02 at 12:17 PMWOW, so many great comments here today that I will come back later when I have time to read them all. JOS #12 caught my eye and I have to add that I agree completely. It is the experts who got us where we are. It is the experts who have invented things that we now wish that we could “uninvent”. Right now, part of my campaign is based on the fact that in order to gain Justice, the legal system has to stop its insane, but legal practice, of having expert witness (purchased)testimony accepted in court. Legal expert witnesses are otherwise known as “Liars for Hire”. Their testimony is legal all across the country. That is one reason that things are so screwed up. That is the main reason that poor people never get a fair shake in the usa court system. I still remember the “Experts” who got up and testified at the congressional tobacco hearings. The experts all testified, under oath, that cigarette smoking was NOT injurious to health.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 10/02 at 12:23 PMOh boy, I’ve got some catching up to do. Hello again, all. Some quick replies to start:
My take on peak oil is the same as my take on global warming, GMOs, etc. Even if a modicum of “scientific” debate exists on whether or not there’s reason to be alarmed, what’s the harm in acting as if there is reason to be alarmed? If everyone on the planet behaved as if oil were running out, as if humans were destroying the ozone layer, as if GMOs were harmful, etc., the only ones who’d suffer would be the corporations. Which, of course, is the precise reason why so few of us behave in such a manner.
Fiona: The Jensen quote I used today was originally written witihin the context of us doing what we can to alleviate suffering, e.g. Jensen saying it’s equally urgent to answer phones at a rape crisis hotline as it is to blow up a dam. So, in that context, there is somuch we all could be doing.
Finally, Mr. DW. Why am I gonna do with you?
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 10/02 at 01:51 PMactually Mickey while we´re at it, I´m gonna want to be reassured I´m not fat from time to time on this blog.
Posted by owen on from barcelona 10/02 at 02:07 PMI wouldn’t say “fat,” Owen...but you gotta do something about those love handles.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 10/02 at 02:10 PMNevermind Owen’s love handles, how’s my hair looking? Also, I was in a band called the Love Handles. Owen need do nothing about us. We’re quite capable of windling away to nothing on our own.
As to all the crude oil in the world, I’ve heard there is a great deal of it but yes, it’s the most easily available stuff causing the wars as of course it’s the cheapest! There’s a great section on this in Greg Palast’s new book, Armed Madhouse. Strongly recommended.
Love to all
Posted by Chris Wood on from a classroom in Manchester 10/02 at 02:20 PMah!
Posted by owen on from barcelona 10/02 at 02:21 PMI just received this in the mail...sorry to change the mood around here today...I don’t support calls for the death penalty, not even for the war criminals.
“...The US president George Bush is not above the law. He is, in fact,
subject to the death penalty for his war crimes. It is high time
that he is brought to justice to face his crimes against humanity.”http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20051028&articleId=1159
“The War Crimes Act of 1996, a federal statute set forth at 18
U.S.C. § 2441, makes it a federal crime for any U.S. national, whether
military or civilian, to violate the Geneva Convention by engaging in
murder, torture, or inhuman treatment.“The penalty may be life imprisonment or—if a single prisoner
dies due to torture—death.”Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 10/02 at 06:03 PMSo I was finally able to watch the videos, and I love that last one about us. It’s absolutely charming.
Owen, you look like you might’ve been out in the sun lately...picking grapes maybe? (almost, anyway)
Mickey now that I’ve had a chance to get through them all, I just have to say how glad I am that you posted all these animalian and eco disaster links.
We are just stupid monkeys after all, and we need reminding. (although if we ACTED more like monkeys that probably wouldn’t be an issue)
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 10/02 at 06:04 PMRMJ I disagree with the death penalty as well and there’s no argument I can think of that would be valid in the case against a war crimes tribunal.
I wouldn’t cry if he choked on a pretzel though.Ha! captcha says “nuclear”, I’m sure it was an oversight...it must’ve meant “nucular”.
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 10/02 at 06:34 PMHello all. I agree with RMJ. “Anti-death penalty” means “anti-death penalty.” No exceptions.
Empress: Isn’t it pathetic that visitors to my blog today might learn for the first time about such outrages? Even worse, many will attack me for talking about them (someone called me a bald-headed hippie today). A truly fair and balanced news show might lead off like this: “Our top story tonight: Animals on the brink of human-enforced extinction.”
One a lighter note, earlier today, Michele and I went here. There’s a lifesize version of Sasquatch there that looks exactly like this.
P.S. Chris, you need a haircut. Captcha sez: growth
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 10/02 at 07:28 PMWhoever called you a hippy needs to fact check there stereotypes. lol
Yeah, I can’t support the Death Penalty either. However in his case there is much to be said for life sentence in federal ButtF**k prison. With mandatory once a month world televised public humiliations. We can get the Jackass troop and the creators of those marvellous Japanese game shows to come up with numerous suggestions for humiliations then draw them out of a hat each month. Surprise, surprise Mr Bush and cabinet guess what happens this month! lol
It would be the most Tivo’ed show in history guaranteed.
Posted by Luna_C on from the Delta 10/02 at 07:45 PMLuna I like your gameshow idea. Harper could be on it too. Since the CBC does do some reality tv now, do you think we could get them to produce it? Of course, you’d have to figure out anew which day and time it would be on each week.
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 10/02 at 07:51 PM...and maybe if the theme song for the show was an old metal tune from the 80’s, we could coax JD Roberts (aka “John Roberts") to take a short sebatical from CNN and host it too! (I’ve tried to find photos online of him back from his ‘Power Hour’ days, but it’s a fruitless endeavour)
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 10/02 at 07:56 PMNow that’s reality TV. How about this: Take 50 CEOs and Cabinet members and make them live in Haiti or Mali for a year...on one dollar a day.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 10/02 at 08:28 PMHey Amelo,
Harper should totally be in there. In fact we should have all these clowns held in cells beneath the other prisoners. Best part is that there roofs are all grated. haha! They should also have a TV channel all there own where anyone could tune in and watch what there doing at anytime day or night. Then be able to send instant messages that are read at a very loud volume by a computerized Elmo voice. snicker snicker Oh man that’s almost too cruel.. I don’t want them to pass away that quickly. No pulling a Ken Lay for these bad boys. Just long endless days of comeuppance.
Great Idea Mickey!! Heck I would love to just see them attempting to live on minimum wage.
On a related note, These Government officials should be televised while there working. Transparent government that’s the ticket.
Anyways, back to reality. I don’t know how many people here know of the work of Robert Anton Wilson. His book “Cosmic Trigger” was a real mind opener for me when I first read it back in the late 80’s. He also wrote the “Illuminatus Trilogy” and one of my personal favourites the stage play “Wilhelm Reich in Hell” Sounds like he is very sick and in deep financial trouble. A general call has gone out for fans to support him if possible.Here is the referring article from Boing Boing.
http://www.boingboing.net/2006/10/02/robert_anton_wilson_.html
Posted by Luna_C on from the Delta 10/02 at 08:48 PMMZ, what to do with me? What do you mean? I still say some of y’awl guard against my self-righteousness. I really have no hostility about anything for reasons I already explained. It seems natural to feel guarded against self-righteousness.
But I admit that I am self-righteous.
Posted by dw on from ohio 10/02 at 08:53 PMNot a shark (fish), an orca or ‘killer’ whale (mammal). Spectacular finnage nonetheless. I’ll be back....
Posted by strandwolf on from Calif 10/02 at 09:17 PMHi strandwolf. Are you talking about the video clip? That’s definitely a shark and not an Orca. Maybe you’re talking about something else.
Luna I’m afraid I’ve not heard of Robert Anton Wilson, it’s terrible how many artists who provide the rest of us with so much to wonder at, often don’t have half the income of the average CEO who provides us with a lot of what we don’t need.
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 10/02 at 09:50 PMLuna, Peak Oil is not some conspiracy amongst oil companies to soak consumers for more money. It’s a very real and serious issue. To dismiss it, and the potentially catostrophic consequences it implies, is a mistake.
Banta, oil production in the U.S. peaked in about 73. That is a fact. The U.S. went from being an oil exporter to an oil importer as one immediate result.
I didn’t say global production peaked in the 70s. The Middle East is expected to peak in the near future, but, it seems to be agreed, has not yet.
You’re estimate of sustaining the global economy for at least 100 more years is unrealistic. As I mentioned, production peaked in the US decades ago, and many other oil producing regions followed suit. Some major regions have not yet peaked, such as the Middle East, but are expected to in the next decade or two. Rates of discovery have been declining for half a century. As production rates decline, costs will obviously go up. This is not a conspiracy by oil companies, it’s supply and demand. Nor will the collapse of the economy that would result be the decision of the oil companies, as you suggested in #23.
This is not a conspiracy. Oil is not a sustainable resource, and the fact is we’re very near reaching the peak of its production. That will have consequences, serious ones, that need to be considered.
In 100 years, I don’t doubt that alternative sources will be developed. But right now, sustainable sources of energy are not capable of compensating for the loss of oil as a cheap energy source. Oil will still be there, sure, but will become increasingly expensive.
If we work now, we could offset the global economic depression that would otherwise be inevitable, but I don’t think there’s much of a buffer here.
MZs got a good point. Even if you don’t believe there’s an impending crisis or reason to be alarmed, behaving as though there is would be beneficial to us all. We need clean renewable sources of energy, and we need to increase production with those that exist currently.
A whole other aspect to this is the environmental one (I’ve only talked about the economic impact). I haven’t even touched on that, but, for arguments sake, let’s dismiss the Peak Oil issue. Let’s pretend oil is a permenant source of energy. Okay, well, our dependence upon oil is still a major problem, regardless. We must consider the consequences of continuing on the present course.
DW, you’ve confused “self-righteous” with “righteous” in your “little experiment”. The opposite of “wicked” and “sinful” is “righteous”, not “self-righteous”. The opposite of “self-righteous” would be “humble”. Are you self-righteous? Are you convinced of your own righteousness while doubting the righteousness of others?
As for the death penalty, I’m not against it in theory, only in practice.
As for war crimes charges, that would be a positive development.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taipei 10/02 at 10:07 PMIs it that sustainable sources of energy are not capable of filling the gap, or is it that they’re not capable of doing so within our current energy consumption configurations?
I’m pretty certain that if the money I pay on my hydro bill that goes toward paying down the debt load incurred by the private company that bought Ontario hydro were put toward my own deferrment of costs, I’d be able to conceivably run everything I need on solar and wind power without a big mess or cost much greater than the original cost of initially installing electrical from the mains.
Why isn’t this a feasible option? I keep hearing (generally - I’m not referring only to the comments here) that we don’t have viable alternatives, but I don’t hear why they’re not feasible, only that it would be a big change.
Any thoughts on that aspect, or something I’m missing?
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 10/02 at 10:19 PMCertainly, sustainable energy sources have the potential to give us clean, cheap energy, but the problem is they haven’t been developed to the point where they can provide us with enough energy to begin to offset our oil consumption.
Alternatives are certainly viable, and feasible, but we’ve got to work now to make it happen. Sustainable sources need to comprise a bigger slice of the consumption pie to offset the affects of peak oil. A much, much, much bigger slice.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taipei 10/02 at 10:35 PMThe link between Mind and Social / Environmental-Issues.
The fast-paced, consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society is causing exponential rise in psychological problems besides destroying the environment. All issues are interlinked. Our Minds cannot be peaceful when attention-spans are down to nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds. Our Minds cannot be peaceful if we destroy Nature.
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment.
Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist.
Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.If there are no gaps there is no emotion.
Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.
When society switches-over from physical work (agriculture) to mental work (scientific/ industrial/ financial/ fast visuals/ fast words ) the speed of thinking keeps on accelerating and the gaps between thinking go on decreasing.There comes a time when there are almost no gaps.
People become incapable of experiencing/ tolerating gaps.
Emotion ends.
Man becomes machine.
A society that speeds up mentally experiences every mental slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.
A ( travelling )society that speeds up physically experiences every physical slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.
A society that entertains itself daily experiences every non-entertaining moment as Depression / Anxiety.
FAST VISUALS /WORDS MAKE SLOW EMOTIONS EXTINCT.
SCIENTIFIC /INDUSTRIAL /FINANCIAL THINKING DESTROYS EMOTIONAL CIRCUITS.
A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY CANNOT FEEL PAIN / REMORSE / EMPATHY.
A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY WILL ALWAYS BE CRUEL TO ANIMALS/ TREES/ AIR/ WATER/ LAND AND TO ITSELF.
To read the complete article please follow either of these links :
sushil_yadavPosted by sushil_yadav on from India 10/04 at 04:19 AMI was unable to include the complete URL in the above post.
To read the complete article please follow either of these links :
http://www.earthnewswire.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=89&page=viewtopic&t=11
sushil_yadavPosted by sushil_yadav on from India 10/04 at 04:51 AM
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