Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Sunday, November 05, 2006
Canvas commodities, the death penalty, "self-directed" elephants, & our photo caption winner
Congrats, Keir! You’ve got that cultivatin’ caption that be captivatin’ me. (Anyone for gin n’ juice?)
It’s sad, on one hand, that animals must suffer confinement in zoos. On the other hand, they offer scientists opportunities for study and can help raise public awareness of many problems animal species are faced with. A kid who sees an elephant (or other animal) on TV isn’t really affected by it. But the first time you go to a zoo and actually see one of those magnificent creatures in real life, it becomes a part of you. I’d be willing to bet that kids whose parents take them to the zoo are far more likely to become interested in animals, and hence more likely to be concerned about humane issues, conservation, etc.
Atlantic Free Press also picked up the article, MZ.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taipei 11/05 at 08:07 AMGood morning Jeremy...I will check out your article as soon as I finish posting this.
Congratulations Kier...We all knew that you are a real winner.
Mickey...I have been forwarding the Hersh article to everyone I know. Also, I have been following the story about the elephants. We continue to learn that animals are more intelligent that we give them credit for. In many ways they are more intelligent than humans. I guess it is a good thing that they don’t have nukes. They would put an end to all of us who walk upright and save the planet.
About rich white folks going to other countries and adopting babies, that has bothered me for a very long time. I had a friend in Pennsylvania who did that many years ago. The whole community gathered around and celebrated when she and her husband arrived home with the new little one. I was filled with sorrow. My question was, why did they not also “adopt” the parents of the baby. Madonna is receiving some criticism now but some of it is misdirected. The problem, the way I see it, is NOT that she bent the law to allow the adoption of little David. The real problem is the arrogance in the belief that just because you have the money, you can even buy a baby. No parent, ever, should lose a child because of finances. Thanks for letting me vent on this issue which has bother me for a very long time. BTW, there is a little bit of this going on in the usa. The poor are more likely to have the government take their children. Sometimes there is a real abuse on the part of the parents, but not always. I know about this from the inside. I used to work for the government on this issue. I didn’t “think” along the lines I was supposed to and eventually lost my job. I was told that I “identified” with the poor people too much.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/05 at 09:19 AMso...its a bad day for civilisation
the murderous tyrant has been sentenced to death.
it took the machinations of other murderous tyrants to bring it about
so many statues erected for mass murderers.
then people working on the behalf of other mass murderers com and tear them down.
Posted by michael on from exile 11/05 at 09:45 AMJeremy...Great articla ¨&k ¨&k V. I agree with most of it. I like it that you call for reparations. I might differ with what you say here,
“...On the contrary, the US should commit itself to supporting Iraqi efforts to create a democratic government. This would require more than just lip service, meaningless declarations of benevolent intent, and a sustained effort, such as using its enormous influence to help bring Iraqi parties in opposition with one another to the conference table....”My view is the the usa should IMMEDIATELY withdraw, (not redeploy). I want total withdrawal from ALL military bases on foreign soil. The usa should be sending Iraq money, not troops. Troops are trained to kill and destroy. Money will help the Iraqis rebuild what the troops have already bombed. Also, it seems like national arrogance to me, to assume that the Iraqis are not capable of governing themselves and have to be led by the usa. I agree that outside help might be a good thing, (we need some outside intervention here) but it should not be the usa. Too bad that the UN is not more effective. Maybe the best thing that the usa could do to help Iraq and all other sovereign nations would be to eliminate the Security Council and build a democratic UN. I any case, I like your article a lot. You hit on a lot of important points. I will forward your article to others.
BTW...watching the results of the Saddam trial has been interesting. Almost all of the Charges that he was found guilty of could be applied to those in the current administration here. Just change the name from Saddam to Bush, Cheyney, Rumsfeld, and most members of Congress.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/05 at 09:48 AMHi michael....we were symultyping and thinking along the same lines.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/05 at 09:51 AMhi RMJ
what most folks don’t understand is that if the laws that were applied in nuremberg when the nazis were put on trial were applied now tony blair and george bush would be hung.
what they were convicted and hung for at nuremberg was “planning and waging an aggressive war” - those are the real words used
NOT GENOCIDE
no human being was tried for genocide till 1996 when some of the rwanda stuff came up.
however, i believe the death penalty to be not the sickest thing in the world but the sickest paradox that our fake systems of law throw up, which it is why it is a bad day for civilisation...what little there is of it
Posted by michael on from exile 11/05 at 09:59 AMGood morning everyone,
It never ceases to amaze me that humans never cease to be amazed at evidence of non-human animalian intelligence. Zoos as a whole disturb me but Jeremy’s suggestion that young children who go there and see these once wild animals are empassioned to improve situations does ring true. However it would be much better if we adults could behave as such in a larger sense and render the zoos unecessary for the preservation of species under our own assault.
On the adoption issue I am also bothered, however taking RMJ’s example of the Madonna and child...people buy babies every day - it’s not a good thing; like the ‘Just say No’ campaign on the ‘War against Drugs’ it’s who’s selling them that’s the real problem. Babies are bought and sold like every other commodity - but quietly; yes it’s wrong to buy them, but it seems like treating the symptoms rather than the disease if we examine those who adopt without equal or greater examination of those who are giving up these children for adoption which is often a thinly veiled purchase.
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 11/05 at 10:12 AMhi amelopsis
re animal intelligence try this…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6100430.stm
Posted by michael on from exile 11/05 at 10:16 AMmicheal #6...that’s why we need war crimes trials NOT impeachment.
Hi Amelopsis… I agree. It is a problem of the unequal distribution of wealth around the globe. It might take a few days to fix that, but in the meantime, fat-cats like Madonna could share their wealth and keep families together.
On another topic...what’s all this about the Iraqi court and its Charge against Ramsey Clark?
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/05 at 10:26 AMrmj, absolutely
for the record, i believe the death penalty is absolutely and utterly wrong but i believe a few things are worse
little jimmy osmond
mc hammer
glasgow rangers soccer club
“reality” tvif you cant tell by now i am joking.
the death penalty is the worst thing for the simple reason that all of us know - if killing someone is by definition the worst thing you can do then to do it legally when the person has no chance to defend themsleves is..... well…
despicable
Posted by michael on from exile 11/05 at 10:33 AMMichael it’s nice to see those elephants - you’d think the observing humans could’ve been little more creative than an ‘x’, though! Something a little interesting for pete’s sake!
RMJ, yes I do agree, over the course of the few days it’ll take to get global hunger and the redistribution of wealth sorted out, the uber-rich would better serve humanity by improving the lives of many rather than cherry picking their underpriviledge family. Not to mention the fact that the unfortunate boy is FOREVER going to be branded as the ‘African boy adopted by Madonna’...I mean it’s not like he’s going to blend into the neighbourhood and the other kids won’t think of it. Talk about an albatross around your neck. (after all, they won’t be fishing the oceans in another few decades either)
Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 11/05 at 10:51 AMHello Expendables. It’s another beautiful fall day in NYC
Thanks for the lively start here...and let me tell you, if you wanna see “self-directed” behavior in front of a mirror, Madonna has the elephants beat by a mile.
As for Saddam, here’s something I wrote FOUR years ago that feels right today:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2773Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 11/05 at 11:30 AMRMJ, thanks for reading the article, commenting, and sharing it. I’m not sure where you got the impression that I differ with you on immediate and total withdrawal. I agree with you 110%. When I posted the article at OpEdNews, I included a call to action to “Bring the Troops Home!”
I think you misunderstood my comment on supporting democracy. I don’t mean that the way the politicians do. I talking about real democracy. As I said in the article, for that to occur, it is prerequisite that the occupation of Iraq by foreign militaries end.
I also, of course, fully agree with your point about arrogance, and made a similar point in the article.
On the Saddam trial and verdict, all I can say is it’s instructive that the crime he was found guilty for was committed in 1982, prior to the major US commitment to supporting his regime (efforts moving that direction were just underway). Of course, we all heard repeatedly prior to the invasion that Saddam “gassed his own people”, referring to the attack on Halabjah. Tellingly, Saddam was not tried for that or numerous other crimes that occurred with full US complicity.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taipei 11/05 at 11:35 AMI’d love to hear this excerpt from Jeremy’s article spoken on, say, CNN...just to see what happens:
The resistance to occupation began almost immediately after the invasion, and grew steadily during just the first few months of the war. Ethnic and religious tensions were an outcome of the invasion predicted well in advance, but the common image represented to us by politicians and the media of US forces acting as peacekeepers keeping Shiites and Sunnis from tearing each other apart is a dangerous delusion.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 11/05 at 11:41 AMHello all...it has been lively start this morning. As usual, there is so much here to digest.
One thing that occurs to me that occured to me as soon as Saddam was captured was that none of the US’s compliance in his actions would ever come out at his trial. Big surprise!
Posted by JOS on from Oak Park 11/05 at 11:49 AM“Police Arrest Naked Man with Concealed Weapon:”
Posted by JOS on from Oak Park 11/05 at 11:57 AMsee you all later on…
Posted by JOS on from Oak Park 11/05 at 12:05 PMJeremy #13...I agree.
Amelopsis...Yep...David has a tough road ahead of him.
Hi JOS...You make a good point that none in the Media that I have heard make...about usa complicity.About Genocide and wars of aggression (as in the Nuremberg trials). It seems to me that the usa could be guilty on both charges in Iraq. I believe that the Charge of Genocide can be made against usa actions in Diego Garcia, even though the people there were not killed.
//////////////////////////////////////
The international legal definition of the crime of genocide is found in Articles II and III of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide.Article II describes two elements of the crime of genocide:
1) the mental element, meaning the “intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such”, and
2) the physical element which includes five acts described in sections a, b, c, d and e. A crime must include both elements to be called “genocide.”
Article III described five punishable forms of the crime of genocide: genocide; conspiracy, incitement, attempt and complicity.--------------
“Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.Article III: The following acts shall be punishable:
(a) Genocide;
(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
(d) Attempt to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide. “Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/05 at 12:32 PMHey everyone and thanks for a great post and comments here… always frustrating when such great stuff shows up here in the hours before my book club and I’m preparing… and the weather was oddly warm after the movie last night, hardly needed gloves at all!
Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 11/05 at 12:50 PMHi James…
Breaking news that will not be reported anywhere but here...Vermont’s October Surprise… State law requires that the Office of the Secretary of State publish a bulletin, giving information about all statewide candidates, to be included with newspapers the week before the election. Most third party candidates have been censored out of the Press so this publication was their only access to the voter. I did not receive mine with my newspaper so I just did a mini investigation. It seems that the whole southern half of the State never received the publication. The information is up on the Vt Sect of State site but since most people here do not have computers that is almost useless. I am sure that no law has been violated because the State never violates any law.Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 11/05 at 04:32 PMHad to take a little step back this weekend from the computer and I see I’ve arrived late for my own acceptance speech. Still . . .
I would like to thank Mickey Z. and all of the Expendables for this wonderful award, my first such recognition for comedy writing. I want you all to know that I will cherish the DVD, put the lessons learned therein to good use, and share them in whatever ways I can.
I would also like to take this opportunity to extend my middle finger to those who support, enforce, and enact the death penalty, whether on murderous political tyrants, brain damaged loners, the children of Iraq, Gaza, Lebanon (etc etc), all marine life (whether it’s served at top NYC restaurants or caught swimming in the wrong place at the wrong time), you get the drift.
Mickey: I’ll conatct you in a sec. Later all.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague (Jackowski election hdqts) 11/05 at 06:36 PMPS: in my post-win glee I forgot to make the obligatory mention of how tough the competition was. Personally I loved Mew’s entry (tres Gary Larson).
And while I’m here: Mickey, I remember that article from ‘02 very well. Right on target and a point that bears repeating over and over and over again. Until people get it.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague (Jackowski election hdqts) 11/05 at 06:56 PM
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