Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Thursday, March 01, 2007
America’s March Madness
morning all
i read and enjoyed the article over at znet yesterday.
it is good just to document it in that way
can we expect and april article too?
Posted by michael on from scotland 03/01 at 05:39 AMThanks, Michael...and an early hello to all Expendables.
Yeah, I’ll likely do an April article but I do see myself drastically slowing down with all the articles, etc (but still making blog posts, however). This is for many reasons...mostly related to family health issues (now Michele’s mom is having surgery, too). But also, I’m questioning the whole concept.
And Jeremy, from last night, I’ll try to explain further about my distrust of Libertarians. For now, I’ll start with the social Darwinism aspects. To me, it’s like predatory capitalism in anarchist’s clothing.
I’m off to see a client soon. Talk to you all later.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 03/01 at 05:46 AMMZ, I don’t see any reason why you shouldn’t slow the articles down while you care for you family. But please remember that those articles are like bait that bring people here. I personally have benefitted greatly from taking such bait and meeting the others who have taken it. We all have to find the best way to live responsibly and respectably, and maybe yours won’t include as much article production . . . but for what it’s worth I think you do your family great honor with your writing.
Posted by Keir on from the hague 03/01 at 06:53 AMMorning all.
Mickey, I have learned a lot from your articles, and from the Expendables’ comments here. I think that there are those of us who question and analyze constantly, but if we don’t have information to work with (other than what passes for truth in history books or in mainstream media, and we know what that is worth), we’re still in the same place we’d be if we weren’t the types to question and think. So the effort you make is always valuable, imo. And even if you cut back so it is mostly providing a space and topic for Expendable tangents and conversations, I’m still going to be learning and expanding and thinking more than I would be otherwise.
Your March ZNet article was chilling. Yet more childhood myths crumble for me, and I’d thought most of them already had.
James, regarding the veganism question you had a few days ago, if I understand correctly, your real question is what difference one person makes, right? And that is difficult to quantify, in a way, because we can’t walk up to the cow or chicken or whatever animal and see that there, that one is the one who wasn’t killed because we abstained from purchasing the meat/dairy/eggs, etc. Yet, regardless of whatever else is going on in the industry, we are not increasing the demand. We are not supporting the industry. Our few dollars might not look like it is making a difference, but of course there are more than just one or two of us. We’re only just under 1% of the population in this country, but that is still a few million people. And we shouldn’t ignore the ripple effect. I spend time at an animal sanctuary a couple times a month, and I suppose that helps me to see exactly who is directly affected by the industry. I might not change anything in the end, but I sure as hell am not going to contribute to it.
“What difference can one person make” is a question that can be applied to anything and everything we believe in. I’m probably idealistic, but I think one person can make a lot of difference. Look at Mickey. He’s making a difference for all of us. So is RMJ and JOS and (imo) everyone here.
Posted by Deb on from NoVa 03/01 at 07:37 AMHey Mick...Keir’s comments have inspired me to tell you some things…
I seriously credit you as a major, if not the main, contributor towards a huge shift in my thinking over the past few years. Thank you for that…
Family sicknesses are some of the hardest trials we face in life. I recommend slowing down. But please know that all of the work you have done has not been done in vain. Many of us here will tell you the same thing...but, to have such an impact on only one person is an amazing achievement...that you have done so with many and that is nothing short of a miracle.
Thanks Mick…
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 03/01 at 11:01 AMMZ, I’m sure we all can appreciate your reasons for wanting to slow down on the articles, but I’m also pretty sure I speak for everyone in saying I hope you keep it coming.
My own writing comes and goes in spurts. I’m always amazed at your output. I’d love to quit my job and write full time, and work on getting published.
Our new dog is doing great. She’s amazingly well-behaved, and learns very quickly. It’s unbelievable anyone would just throw out (literally) a dog like that.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taipei, Taiwan 03/01 at 11:22 AMMan, I so completly hope that everything goes a well as possible for all of your family and you do what’s best for you with the writing…
Depressing, or though provoking? Yeah you do like that word narcissist, don’t you? But name-calling aside, you haven’t really argued my points in any concrete way.
As for veganism in general, my question is simply this-- in the entire history of the movement, has it been an effective way to cut into the animal agriculture industry’s profits-- at all? Yes or no. Or is the meat, etc. industry actually doing better than ever? Sure, you can find more vegan related crap in supermarkets now, but the goal is not that, but less meat products. Besides, the only ones being truly mass-prroduced are ones with ties to the meat/dairy industry, like Silk.
You see, I’m not being as defeatist as it might sound, and note that I’m not telling you that I’m rushing out to Westerly right now to buy up all their organic chicken. I just mean that what good does it do for the animals or anyone else to content yourselves with self-deception an ineffective boycotts? Instead of rearranging those deck chairs and feeling happy about it, why not find a realistic way to go about these abolitionist goals? Most likely some form of massive legal action, similar to what Ralph Nader did with the auto industry. No, wasn’t an auto-abolitionist, cars are still here, but it’s similar action required.
If you can explain how my going vegan, or your doing so, or ten of us or even a thousand, has been an effective boycott, then please let me know. See? That’s all I really ask-- what will it take to truly deal the animal agriculture a decisive blow? I’m really curious. In my ten or so years of being vegan, I haven’t seen anything that will.
Man, that all sounds more depressing than I meant it to… gotta go back to work now.
Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 03/01 at 12:26 PMHello Expendables...from a sunny Astoria.
Wow...I am blown away by all this. It’s genuinely hard to accept that you’re talking about me but if you really are, I can only say thanks. This has been an emotional day already as I ran into two friends and ended up sharing the details of my life (trying hard not to lose it while doing so). Coming home to read such comments, however, just opened the floodgates.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 03/01 at 12:41 PMOn another note entirely…
James: I sense a palpable hostility in your recent posts. If I’m correct, I’d appreciate an explanation.. In addition, I don’t even what this means:
Depressing, or though provoking? Yeah you do like that word narcissist, don’t you? But name-calling aside, you haven’t really argued my points in any concrete way.
For years, I believed veganism could very much change the world. That may or not be true but I remain a vegan today primarily because I feel it’s the right thing to do. For example, if I’m walking down the block and see an old woman struggling with packages, I will help her every time. I do this not because I think it’ll make everyone else nicer or more aware. I do it because it feels right. No “self-deception” involved, my friend.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 03/01 at 12:45 PMOh… oh man. That perceived hostility was a mistake. Kinda hard to explain. But it wasn’t toward you or anyone here. Really.
Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 03/01 at 12:51 PMOkay, my mistake. I just needed to ask.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 03/01 at 12:55 PMI loved the article, so few “patriotic” Americans have any idea what it is they are so “proud of.”
Also, looking forward to your comments on Libertarians. I see them as just naive pawns of the neo-cons.
Posted by Thomas McCullock on from Colorado Springs 03/01 at 02:08 PMWe have a problem with ‘Libertarians’ in our academic and media circles in the UK.
Go here and follow some links, then weep.
http://www.eustonmanifesto.org
Posted by Andy on from Shanghai 03/01 at 04:27 PMhmm bout veganism changing the world, I’m not sure there is a world to change, just how much gentleness and amiability we’re willing to nourish in our own individual worlds. the rest of the people can walk around wearing an antelope-hide cape with a sharkspine cane and prop their bellies heavy with rotted sirloin against a bar while drinking a milkshake of sea-turtle eggs if they want, it is none of my affair. I guess if I’m not keen on living on a planet where police can tell other people what to do I should include myself there; if people want to do any of the above, it’s for them to work it out for themselves at their own pace, in their own evolution (I can stand everything except intolerance). one reason I have for not eating meat is sure, the cruelty inflicted throughout the process, though the primary one is when not eating meat I have less satanic thoughts than when I do.
Posted by owen on from schmarcelona 03/01 at 06:34 PMhello!
everyone should know..
the meaning of life…
its right here…
Posted by michael on from scotland 03/01 at 06:56 PMGreat line, Mickey:
“...since no other nation claims moral superiority with more frequency than the U.S., to nonchalantly absolve America of its myriad transgressions is to conveniently disregard such reprehensible rhetoric and arrogance.”
Posted by anon on from 03/01 at 07:35 PMHellos to all…
I just had to get a new hard drive and want the first thing that I say on it is how much I appreciate everyone here. Mickey, I understand if you have to slow down a bit but just don’t ever leave us. We all need you and we need each other.Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 03/01 at 08:41 PMMarch Madness indeed, MZ. The imperial excuse of “everyone does it” never moved me. Lengthy occupation or prolonged destruction might cure average Americans of their detachment, but I have to caution that it hasn’t worked economically.
Gore Vidal’s second memoir includes this on page 76, about his friend and lover killed on Iwo Jima: “Jimmie’s last letters home show how aware he was that they were all being thrown away for no purpose other than the enrichment of war contractors. He also added, bitterly, that “no one will remember what we’ve done, only how much they made out of it.” Since his mother had been a secretary to a powerful congressman, this sunny apolitical athlete had always had a good idea of just how things worked in a country such as ours, nor was he alone: during the three years I spent in the army I never heard a single patriotic remark from a fellow soldier, only grief for friends lost and, almost as often, a fierce grievance felt for those back home who were decimating our adolescent generation.” Take that, Clint Eastwood.
Comic relief from the same book: Vidal used to give the advice “"Never pass up the opportunity to have sex or be on television”, advice I would never give today in the age of AIDS or its television equivalent Fox News.”
Captcha sez “country.”
Posted by Zen Prole on from Urth 03/01 at 08:53 PMZen, proper advice for young people today might be correctly: “Never pass up the opportunity to have sex on television.” I mean, how else can youth expect to make a difference in this world?
As long as we’re having fun, I just saw this morphing of Norman Finkelstein and Bruce Lee, some entertaining moments there.
Posted by Keir on from the hague 03/01 at 09:00 PMI’m interested in everyone’s thoughts on Libertarians. MZ, I look forward to hearing your further thoughts when you have more time. My best wishes for your family.
Thomas, you said you see Libertarians as “naive pawns of the neo-cons”. Why is that? As I noted about Ron Paul, he’s opposed to aggressive war and recognizes the Fed for the fraud it is, and I think that’s true across the board for Libertarians. That’s very much opposite the neo-cons, who love aggressive war. And Paul Wolfowitz is head of the World Bank, which demonstrates the neo-con willingness to perpetuate the fraud that is our monetary system.
Andy, I’m not sure what we are supposed to see in that link regarding Libertarianism. I clicked around a bit in the links and didn’t see anything about it.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taipei, Taiwan 03/01 at 09:44 PM“Andy, I’m not sure what we are supposed to see in that link regarding Libertarianism. I clicked around a bit in the links and didn’t see anything about it.”
Exactly.
Posted by Andy on from Shanghai 03/01 at 10:05 PMThoughts on Libertarians: The most important parts of libertarian theology are closely related to anarchism, which any sane person observes at least in part: who’s in charge, why, and what can/should be done about it?
In reality, the American variety of libertarian is a corporate shill without the sense to read where his orders came from (It’s right there! On the page, private!). An article I wish I’d saved some years back detailed the split in the Libertarian Party (sic), which had to do with the difference between civil and corporate libertarians. The latter had more money and prevailed, spreading the virus of upper class welfare.
So, I include myself in the large numbers who distrust non-civil libertarians. The idea of a full range of rights applying to pieces of paper in a file cabinet in Delaware is ludicrous, but a major star in the libertarian firmament. (Good luck in trying to get that idea across, incidentally.) The good news is that such libertarians are so transparent they’re great sport - both reasons why their party and philosophy are dead ends. Corporations need more tact and propaganda than they have to offer.
Posted by Zen Prole on from Urth 03/01 at 10:07 PMYeah.
Those people I linked, for example, consider themselves Libertarians who put the values of the enlightenment above politcal allegiances and so forth.
However, they are reactionary writers who openly support the kind of stuff they claim they are against.
It’s simply propaganda. But for now they have taken control of the concept of freedom and liberty in mainstream discourse. Their views on liberty actual stem from the neo-con concept of ‘free trade’. They pick bits out of Adam Smith that suit them and throw around names like John Locke to add some weight.
One of their writers, Nick Cohen, has just put out a book called “What’s Left?” If you read around the blogs listed on the link I posted then you can get an idea. The most famous members are probably Hitchens, Kamm and Arronovitch.
But Christopher Hitchens, for example, is just a strange parody of those guys these days. Funny none the less. Kamm has posts ‘taking on’ Chomsky which are funny too. Calling him an aplogist for genocide after he called the motives for the Kosovo intervention into question. Playground stylee.
Posted by Andy on from Shanghai 03/01 at 10:21 PMMickey, I always make this my first stop on the internet highway. I’ve learned so much here and have even got other people talking about what you write here. You’re a National Treasure. I give you my best wishes for your family situation.
Peace!
Posted by David on from Louisville KY 03/01 at 10:30 PMAndy, I’m afraid you’ve lost me. The website isn’t libertarian, but, at least as far as I could tell, socialist democrat (correct me if I’m wrong).
As for Adam Smith’s concept of free trade, in my view it’s the correct one, unlike the concept of “free trade”, which is just the opposite, thrown around these days (take NAFTA, for instance).
Zen, I’ve never heard of a “corporate” libertarian, and to me the notion of upper class welfare is anathema to libertarianism. So I would join you in being suspect of any such notion. I agree with you in your comparison to anarchism.
I’m not Libertarian, btw. But I certainly sympathize with much of what they’re about, as I do anarchism. And between a Republican, Democrat, or Libertarian, I’d choose the latter in a heartbeat.
David, I concur. Indeed, a national treasure! As (I believe it was) RMJ said recently, we could use a few more MZs (and RMJs).
Posted by Jeremy on from Taipei, Taiwan 03/01 at 11:32 PMHey Jeremy.
Sorry I lost you. Those writers are reactionary types who support the Iraq war as it “opposes tyranny”. Kamm, for example, was on the BBC TV recently saying that we should renew our nukes but not allow Iran to because we are “a civilised nation, whereas Iran is not”.
The concepts of libertarianism that they see as rooted in Locke, American Independence and Smith are their stated creed. Like the ‘pure’ theory of free trade spouted in economics, it’s all meaningless doublespeak used to cover their oppressive actions.
Like Chomsky points out, the major advances of our times; commercial flight, the internet and computers, medecine, to name a few, were all state developed on taxpayers money then sold back to us.
Posted by Andy on from Shanghai 03/02 at 03:19 AMJeremy: both the neo-cons and the libertarians seek to deregulate everything, and give all power to the corporations. Regulation exists for a reason, because corporations cannot be trusted. Unregulated capitalism is just the religion of greed.
Posted by Thomas McCullock on from Colorado Springs 03/02 at 11:56 AM
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