Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Wednesday, April 18, 2007
My movement is bigger than yours
I was sure you were going to talk about a different kind of movement, mickey!
Happy birthday James, and morning Expendables.
I don’t have any clear thoughts (other than astonishment at one of the commenters on the Iraq article who complained that there was nothing positive in it), but just a lot of associated thoughts.
I’m reading “Price of Fire” about the resource wars in Bolivia, and it touches on damage the IMF did to venezuela, argentina, probably most countries in south america. A poverty rate of “only” 33% would be an improvement in Bolivia and Venezuela, which was sort of odd to think about in relation to Iraq, because it is obviously really bad in Iraq.
I also read a book recently, “Realizing the Impossible: Art Against Authority”, and one of the essays talked about being able to choose to use recovered garbage as art was a slap in the face to the too-many people in the world who don’t have that choice - for them it is garbage or nothing. And that reminds me again of Price Of Fire, where Evo Morales (I think it was) described being a child and picking up the orange rinds that people had thrown out the window of tour buses and eating that because they had no food. They had the water wars and gas wars in bolivia, and the people prevailed, though they are still obviously having a really hard time of it. The Argentinian people threw out five governments in 2 weeks, and there are still worker run businesses resulting from it all. I think there were movements happening underneath it all, but I also think the massive numbers of people in the street banging on the empty pots was spontaneous. (Well, I did warn that I had no clear thoughts, but I should apoligize for the undirected ramble anyway.)
I think our individual actions do matter, but they certainly don’t make it a movement. What does make a movement? Is it the tipping point, a certain percentage of people? Undefinable, perhaps, but movements do seem necessary for big changes. Or would that be revolution?
Captcha says “moved”, which sounds like an opinion on my question, so I thought I’d better record it.
Posted by Deb on from NoVa 04/18 at 06:42 AMhappy birthday james and happy wednesday expendables.
mickey, good article. the last few demos i went to (i have more or less stopped with them now) i was incredibly disheartened not just by the bemusement but also the outright hostility fro ma few members of the public. not because they disagreed with us but because we were delaying them getting to work or going to the shops. that just put me right off.
another sad commentary… i can’t offer a prize but i wonder who can tell me what the biggest man-made thing in the world ever was?
clue - its not the great wall of china
Posted by michael on from scotland 04/18 at 07:05 AMHello all, Happy Birthday James.
@Michael - That rubbish dump in New York?
Posted by Mew on from london 04/18 at 08:06 AMand Mew gets it first time!
(shhhh, i think we watched the same program!)
Posted by michael on from scotland 04/18 at 08:32 AMThanks a lot Mickey and everyone else so far-- yes, it isn’t easy living with a right-wingnut like Sonja in that photo. And now I’m firmly into my late 30s… And hey, that garbage dump is the one on Staten Island, right? So that’s not really New York, I mean not really…
Posted by James on from work 04/18 at 09:03 AMMickey wrote: "These critiques are flawed for many reasons, e.g.: 1. They are not only assuming the existence of a perplexed mass of fence sitters just waiting for the right moment to pick a side, they also believe these fence sitters actually care (or even read) what someone like me writes."
Not that I would ever argue for unconditional support for the troops (I believe they each have individual choice and therefore bear partial responsibility for the war), but the above passage left me wondering: If one really doesn’t believe that there are fence-sitters who may read, and then be affected by, one’s writings, then why bother writing in the first place? Or, more to the point, do you just want to draw a moral line in the sand, or are you serious about wanting to convince others of your viewpoint?
Personally, I believe that Mickey, like me, is genuinely interested in speaking truth to, and hopefully persuading, fence-sitters (or, better yet, those vehemently opposed). So, it would seem that alienating one’s rhetorical opponent should be a real concern, and not one taken lightly.
I think the important question, then, is this: How do we speak truth to the soldiers and their families (especially with regard to their own culpability) without alienating them? When we figure out the answer, our anti-war polemics will be much more effective.
Posted by jason on from greenpoint, brooklyn 04/18 at 09:39 AMHappy Birthday, James!
I thought the whole of NYC was one big garbage dump…
can I say that because I was born there? Just kidding.
That’s quite a photo you’ve got there, Mick. I am reading Naked Lunch right now and that position looks like it came out of one of Burrough’s sick junk induced fantasies.
FYI, 157 Iraqis died in four separate bombings in Iraq early this morning.
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 04/18 at 09:50 AMThat’s weird…
that should read that “I thought the whole of NYC was one big garbage dump.”
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 04/18 at 09:52 AMoh well...now I don’t see those weird symbols in my first comment anymore...must have been a LSD-6 flashback.
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 04/18 at 09:54 AM“Not in my back yard” is one answer I get when asking “why arent more people upset with whats going on in Iraq?”
Thats one fundamental difference in perspective right there: The whole earth is ‘my backyard’.
We are all related, interconnected.
One interesting question posed to me yesterday:
How would the world/your life be different if we didnt keep track of age...if we didnt know when we were born?
Happy Bday James!Posted by frances on from sunny 2 days in a row bc 04/18 at 10:05 AMMickey, the support the troops thing is really difficult to deal with. Here in Canada, it’s just as bad. If you question the bravery and integrity and high minded ideals of democracy-spreading men and women, you are shouted down, called unpatriotic, and generally viewed as a bastard.
Don’t even bother with the facts of never having been asked to invade and kill thousands of people in the first place, of supporting the world’s leading terrorist state as it continues it’s campaign of war crimes in a defenseless country.
A couple of people at work have joined Facebook groups dedicated to supporting the troops. I don’t even know, quite honestly, what they think they mean by that. I mean, we all support the damn troops with our misspent tax dollars. But the point is I don’t even bother saying anything because I don’t want to argue with people whose minds will not be changed and who will just be really pissed at me.Posted by Edson Castilho on from Halifax, Nova Scotia 04/18 at 10:17 AMThe other comment I wanted to make was about the SOUTH KOREAN killer at Virginia Tech. This man has lived in the US since he was 9. If I were the killer, a white man who emigrated to Canada at age 15 with his family, do you think I would be referred to as SOUTH AFRICAN in every single reference to me in the news about this story? The racism of mainstream media is so blatant! And still it shocks me, unbelievable!
Chau for now
Edson
Posted by Edson Castilho on from Halifax, Nova Scotia 04/18 at 10:21 AMHello Expendables. Yet another overcast day in NYC. As for Staten Island, we New Yorkers usually pretend it doesn’t exist.
Great comments, as always. Jason, I’m not so sure there are fence sitters and, to be honest, I’m more interested in reaching those who’ve already begun to see past the corporate propaganda anyway. We’ve been waiting for decades for mainstream Americans to wake up and the result is a planet in serious peril. Maybe we should just focus on those already questioning to see if they can be inspired to go further. I dunno. All I can say is that I’m not going to tiptoe around those who willingly support the American Empire, hoping I don’t offend them.
Happy B’day, James.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 04/18 at 10:31 AMEdson, talk about blatant…
Posted by michael on from scotland 04/18 at 10:31 AMAh pretty good take today at Counterpunch in this piece, Love and Unhappiness in an Alien Culture
Virginia Tech and Cho Seung Hui
By JERRY KROTH
“Perhaps instead of focusing on gun control, David Geffen, media violence, or beefing up campus security, we should look more closely at the alienation and lack of intimacy in American life. After her first visit to this country, Mother Teresa said the United States was the “loneliest” country she had ever been in. A recent Pew poll bears out her impressions by reporting that the number of Americans who have “no one to talk to about a personal issue” has more than doubled in just the last decade. We need to direct our attention to the lonely, depressed, alienated, and emotionally discarded segments of our society. There needs to be a sincere national dialogue about psychotherapy, mental health, and the absence of love in our society which gives rise to the evil that we all are trying to come to terms with today.Posted by dw on from Cincinnati 04/18 at 10:58 AMSupporting the troops means supporting the weaponry, the tanks aircraft shipbuilding, the training techniques, the industrial support industries, the mercenaries, the military bases, the uranium mining, military tribunals, the prisons, mc donalds, coca cola, the pentagon, homeland security, police, torture, world bank.
I think supporting the troops might even mean supporting the terrorists. If there were no enemies there would be no need for troops.On another note: In reference to shrubs visit to Vir. Tech and the lowered flags. Bush said the shooting was “senseless”. Any culture that can make ‘sense’ of war crimes death and destruction in the name of progress and freedom is insane.
How would the world/your life be different if there were no borders?
Posted by frances on from bc, canada 04/18 at 02:27 PMJust read some perspectives on the virginia tech. awakening. A culture wihout love, without real intimacy, a culture of apathy, calousness...perhaps the problem is america, for the most part is emotionally, intellectually, philosophically, ethically dead...we’ve been dead for hundreds of years...we simply need to lie down and finalize this and stop pretending we’re alive, stop pretending we are anything worthy of discussion. This is how I am feeling at this moment and also very alone as I know paid activists who I wouldn’t accompany to a grocery store, activists who themselves, cannot see beyond hierarchy, beyond their own control issues, beyond their insensitivities...plant that garden, develop you families, live together, share resources, develop trust, develop trust, develop the ‘we’ in your relationships, don’t go down with the sinking ship, you might hold you friend from drowning, but not the weight of 300 million !
Posted by joe of maine on from 04/18 at 03:56 PMShengri kwai le, James!
The croc incident was in my neck of the woods. Incredible they were able to reattach his arm.
I must say I agree with Jason. If you don’t feel there are “fence sitters” to be persuaded, then what’s the point of writing? To preach to the choir? Certainly not. To rub the opposition? Well, that’s all good fun, but I hope we all take ourselves and these issues more seriously than that.
I agree that the knee-jerk reactions MZ speaks of are flawed, but I disagree with the reasons given for why this is so. I believe the reasons they are flawed are:
1. I don’t believe placating soldiers or their families by allowing the delusion that whay troops are doing is somehow noble is an honorable course of action.
2. I don’t believe we should mince words and water down the truth just to avoid rocking people’s boats.
I found that the bulk of the article didn’t really address the arguments of those “support the troop” people (you know who I mean) so much as criticize and belittle the efforts of everyone who wants to see the war end. I think it throws out the baby with the bath water.
Beyond MZ’s latest article, I’ve noticed a great deal of pessimism here in recent months from a number of people. I’m certainly aware of how greivous the situation is, but it almost seems to me that a few Expendables have all but lost hope for the future. I’ve said it a number of times in recent months, and I’ll say it again: The surest way of ensuring there is no hope is to surrender to that notion.
Rather than looking at the meager efforts so many people make to try to make some difference and criticizing them for their trivialness, we should be encouraging every individual to be doing those things, however great or however small. Every bit makes a difference, and if we keep preaching otherwise, we’re only hurting ourselves.
I also disagree that there isn’t a “movement” against the war. There was a huge movement against the war well before the war ever even began. That was unprecedented. A great many people continue to speak out against the war in their own way. We are winning more and more people to our side. I know people who were all for the war when we invaded but very much against it now. I don’t know anyone who was against the war but is now supportive of it.
In short, I’ve become increasingly discouraged by the pessimism here and I must say I think attitudes need to change. One of the surest ways to ensure we don’t make a difference is to go on wailing about how nothing we can do will make a difference.
That may be taken as a harsh critique by some of my fellow Expendables, but I must speak my mind honestly amongst my friends and allies. I hope my words are taken in the same spirit with which they are given.
Michael, re: blatant racism. Wow. That’s a stark example (black “looting” vs. white “finding"). Wow. That’s horrible.
Posted by Jeremy on from Taipei, Taiwan 04/18 at 06:16 PMThank you Jeremy. I know that I tend to indulge in pessimism and negativity. Its easier in a way to be negative (especially these days) than to be uplifting or at least balanced.
Everyone I know is against the war but no one I know does anything to ‘protest’ or demonstrate their position of being against it. Other issues like water and seed wars most people I know either are not interested or dont see the connection between their life styles and the plight of poorer nations. The attitude seems to be “ this is too real, serious, not entertaining enough”. I have tried to have conversations with a couple of my clients who are open minded, but I always come away with the feeling they think I am too radical(!) Which is funny because I think I am a softy.
Chogyam Trungpa:To Gesar of Ling
Amor ornamented with gold designs,
Great horse adorned with sandalwood saddle:
These I offer you, great Warrior General-
Subjugate now the barbarian insurgents.Your dignity, O Warrior,
Is like lightening in rain clouds.
Your smile, O warrior,
Is like the full moon.
Your unconquerable power
Is like a tiger springing.
Surrounded by troops,
You are a wild yak.
Becoming your enemy
Is being caught by a crocodile:
O Warrior, protect me,
The ancestral heir.Posted by frances on from bc 04/18 at 07:34 PMBrilliant post, Mickey, even if I say so myself - ‘knee-jerk’ reactions indeed. I especially like this comment: ‘...they also believe these fence sitters actually care (or even read) what someone like me writes.’
Hello from a somewhat cooler Daylesford to Deb, Michael, Mew, James (Happy Birthday from me as well!), Jason, JOS, frances, Edson Castilho, dw (thanks for the link to CounterPunch), Joe of Maine and Jeremy. Have a good day, all of you.
Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 04/18 at 07:41 PMHello again.
Jeremy: I wish I had more than 30 seconds to respond but I just don’t...so it’ll have to wait.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 04/18 at 07:52 PM‘Any culture that can make ‘sense’ of war crimes death and destruction in the name of progress and freedom is insane.’
Spot-on, frances! One reason why I don’t comment much on this blog is that my fellow expendables have so many intelligent things to say (and many great links to offer). Great to find oneself in such company.
Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 04/18 at 08:07 PMHappy birthday, James. And nice article Mickey.
Cheers.
Posted by Ehtesham on from Canada 04/18 at 10:24 PM
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