Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Saturday, March 15, 2008
Progressive paradox: Anti-war, pro-troops
Like anyone else, the military can’t simultaneously be heroes and lickspittles. At any given moment, you’re either thinking for yourself or someone else is doing it for you. There’s no end to the contempt which those in uniform hold for those not. (This principle might have wide application.)
I watched “In The Valley Of Elah” to see why Tommy Lee Jones got nominated, and it was a hash of military myths overlaid with a weak detective story.
There’s only one solution to all this nonsense, and I’ll let you know when I find it.
Posted by Zen Prole from Urth on 03/15 at 10:37 AMFear...some people think we need a military, someone might attack us, we must defend ourselves from the enemy...we’ve been living with the enemy for 260 years. The farmers in Massachusettes saw the enemy immediately, the enemy had more weapons. The last activism 1784. Now what to do beside reduce the effects of fear on our individual minds. One suggestion put to me is get a passport while you can...I recall the documentaries about those in exile, this vision I have, I have wondered about...if...possible?
Posted by joe of maine from on 03/15 at 12:17 PMMickey and Zen—Provocative essay - Mickey—and great thoughts the last few daze on the Obama prediction of retreat from the firebrand “pastor” and his (Obama’s) personal spiritual advisor!! .....Oh .. did the sage of oracle wit—conveniently forget that his (Obama’s) home purchase in Chicago .. came with a few strings attached and the scent of laundered money?? .... Last night, Dr Keyes words stirred my reflections on Thomas Hobbes.. I dusted off a few thoughts on the organism of society and the frail nature of the human spirit to govern others. What do you suppose we would have said in our musings during the “Fall of Rome”—or in 1929—when the US economy collapsed—or during the entry of the US into WWI??—I’m getting ready to hunker down—whatever that means—have an organic sandwich—made from pimento cheese whiz on seven grain bread with raw onions—and await the pairings of the NCAA Basketball tournament on Sunday !! Hey—it taint’ exactly the Roman Circus—but fiddle I must—whilst global warming provides me an early tan .. ps Zen—if I discover “the answer” to your thoughts .. I’ll e-mail the Pope of Greenwich Village .. smile—a quick guide to the best of Thomas Hobbes—http://tinyurl.com/alyqw—and of course—a quick routine from the world of Will Rogers—http://tinyurl.com/3expdo—and words by the philosopher cowboy himself .. we miss ya’ Will—http://tinyurl.com/2newlj—captcha sez “less” ... richie
Posted by richie from st cloud / n ft myers, FL on 03/15 at 12:17 PMMickey, Just for clarification, What is unjust about our economic system here in the U.S.? I think that there are far worse economic systems in the world. Yeah, There are some bad apples and the CEOs of most gigantic corporations don’t give a shit about the rest of us but do we in all honesty really give a shit about them? Yes they are super rich while some are super poor but I wouldn’t want to be them. I would rather have my life of few material possesions and a whole lot of love from family and friends. Personally, I wouldn’t work for a large corporation. I prefer the lower wages and benefits that come from working for a smaller independently owned company because I enjoy my work much more. You seem satisfied with your life even though you’re not pulling down a huge check. I’m not being mean spirited but I think we can sometimes get carried away with this “Eveyone who has money is evil” way of thinking.
Posted by David from Louisville, KY on 03/15 at 12:56 PMThe powerful/wealthy have created horrible conditions for all to live by, including themselves, they don’t know, care or give a damn.
The unequal, unethical distribution of goods, money, etc., are imbalanced due to man-made systems, that are incongruent with natural laws. Raping the earth’s resources so these relatively few individuals, with more waiting in the wings, cannot be escused, apologized for or normalized any longer. The people waiting in the wings are the oppressors of those ‘under’ them in the corrupt, patriarchal, hierarchy that is not inevitable as the sun rising and setting. Money as a means of exchange is one thing, corruption, power, violence backing monetary systems has always been the world’s problem...in any country. It’s hard to imagine the opposite of what we have been acclimated to if we do not understand the interrelatedness of all things and how to live sanely within all this...part of living sanely is knowing natural laws...and how to live with them and understanding balance. In winter time, we need to less active, more reflective, introspective...NOOOO...we work our asses off like machines 40-50 hours a week...to exhausted to realize our humanity, that we’re alive, we eat shit, drink shit, breathe shit...the seasons cycles are simply one law we ignore...we obey, blindly the laws of madmen and criminals who don’t know up from down, whether they’re on foot or horseback...these freaks are the last people who should order the national guard and fbi against their native citizens...!
Posted by joe of maine from on 03/15 at 02:48 PMDavid, Joe, Zen and Mickey—David made some excellent points and Joe—Joe—masterful as usual. I always enjoy Zen and Joe’s work… Mickey—of course—is the master of stimulus—and RMJ remains ever vigilant—This is one slice of the world where the cake is always fresh and the aftertaste is envigorating!—how bout’ a bit of history in less than 5.10 minutes—40 years—49’ - 89’ .... as told by Billy Joel— http://tinyurl.com/2qky6o—smile.. richie
Posted by Richie from st cloud / n ft myers, FL on 03/15 at 03:40 PMHi joe, richie, Zen, Mickey, and all…
David...Everyone who has more money than is needed for survival and maybe a few comforts is morally deficient. Even the Catholic church is now on board and has declared excessive wealth to be a sin. It is the excessive and unfair distribution of wealth that kills 18,000+ in the U$A every year - greedy health care industry blocking a Single Payer System. It is the quest for this excessive wealth that is the root cause of war. We just slaughtered 2 million Iraqis in our bombing since 1991. Capitalism is the most evil and dangerous force on earth. The word “capitalism” says it all - capital is more important than people.
Posted by RMJ from Ward Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts on 03/15 at 03:51 PMRMJ..7..Yes..with capitalism, the emphasis on numbers rather than life, these divisions increase and bring us to where we are..people are happy to know 2 plus 2 will ususally be 4 and don’t care who suffers or dies...there we have the american business man who would rather cheat, steal, manipulate, anything rather than thinking and feeling.
Posted by joe of maine from on 03/15 at 04:20 PMjoe...I agree. Here is an article by Greg Palast that everyone should read. Capitalism exposed by Palast!
Posted by RMJ from Ward Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts on 03/15 at 04:26 PMHello Expendables...from a spring-like Astoria. I thought today’s post contained one of my most provocative articles ever and would likely spur a conversation about the military. David really threw me by zeroing in on one particular line about economics. So, here are some stats to back up the claim that the US maintains a very unfair economic system:
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.htmlPosted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 03/15 at 04:27 PMhttp://www.demos.org/inequality/index.cfm
Inequality Org...whoever the hell they are, have some information about the predators, who are defended by the psychotic so the hungry and needy can’t get their money back...or their claws in the corporate parasites.
Posted by joe of maine from on 03/15 at 04:45 PMMickey #10...thanks for that link.
Your article did result in some active discussions on other sites.joe...I will check out your link shortly.
captcha word is “military” - very interesting.
Posted by RMJ from Ward Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts on 03/15 at 04:59 PMI saw the long thread at Dissident Voice, RMJ, but was disappointed to see it devolve into rants about me supporting Israel. Bizarre.
I even got this reply from the editor of a major lefty site: I largely agree w/ you, in that we all have the freedom to make our own choices in life, and we should be held accountable to them - but proclaiming yourself morally superior, or outright attacking the troops is a surefire way to 1. prolong the war 2. push more troops into the arms of their pro-war buddies and controllers. We need to reach out to the troops w/ kindness and compassion, not call them criminals.
Makes you want to scream…
Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 03/15 at 05:04 PMI appreciate the links. Try as I might to find some good in this country, I always seem to crash hard. Is there any redeeming quality about this place?
Posted by David from Louisville, KY on 03/15 at 05:32 PMMickey, I am sorry to have steered your post from the military to economics. I certainly didn’t intend to do that. However, after reading the links provided it sure would seem that one has a lot to do with the other.
Posted by David from Louisville, KY on 03/15 at 05:48 PMDead on, David. The US spends one million dollars a minute on war. If that’s not an economic issue, I’m not sure what is.
Also, feel free to start any discussion you wish here. You’re among friends.
Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 03/15 at 05:49 PMDavid #15...It’s great that you are here contributing to the discussion. You got me thinking and trying to find something nice to say about the USA. When I think of something, I’ll let you know.
Mickey #13...It is because of comments, such as you received from the editor, that your article is so important. It reminds me of the bashing that Jeremiah Wright is taking. No one is coming to his defense for saying that 9/11 was blowback and that the dropping of the A bombs on civilians was wrong. Ward Churchill all over again.
Posted by RMJ from Ward Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts on 03/15 at 06:34 PMDavid..14...You asked is there are any redeeming qualities about this country...I would say yes and it’s not man made...however there are good people, nice bicycles and some decent cigars.
Posted by joe of maine from on 03/15 at 07:05 PMWell, America is the birthplace of jazz, baseball, abstract expressionism, and the Beat writers.
Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 03/15 at 07:18 PMEvening all.
We in the UK are having yet another round of politicians and pundits telling us to be patriotic/nationalistic, with a not so subtle hint of “support our troops (and the government that sent them to X Y and/or Z)”. Seems to be an annual event, like the boat race, and Mickey has it dead on in his last post. If someone asked me whether I was proud of British science, or literature, rock music, engineering, whatever, I could say yes (with scant justification, given that I have not contributed to any of those fields); and if asked if I am proud of our history of imperialism and industrialism right up to the present, I can of course say no.
But British idiots, like their american cousins, demand that everything gets rolled up into one; the National package, with the corporations and their government as the horse-pill in the middle of tasty accomplishments. If you admire Newton you must admire BAe, and as my most hated teacher told me, Shakespeare would be working for the Saatchi & Saatchi PR group were he around today.Much as I’d like to believe we Britishers are far to cynical and empire-guilt-ridden to be susceptible to this nonsense, shit like this still freaks me out. I wish the union well, but no child of mine is going within a 100yds of a school.
Posted by Mew from clophill on 03/15 at 08:34 PM‘Somehow, individuals and groups can stand tall against war and military intervention but refuse to shine a light on those who choose (and get paid) to fight.’
What a good point you make, Mickey! Thanks for another excellent entry.And hello, Zen Prole, Joe of Maine, richie, David, Rosemarie and Mew - from down under where it is so warm that it is hard to collect one’s thoughts. More soaring temperatures - 100F today. It is actually warmer in Daylesford than in Melbourne (120 kms away). I’m off to another ‘flying visit’ to the Victorian capital, so take care, all of you - until next Wednesday.
Ciao,
HelgaPosted by Helga Fremlin from Daylesford, Australia on 03/15 at 09:34 PMDavid, MZ is right on with his link: William Domhoff is the past master of documenting the gross inequality in the US. Michael Parenti’s “Land Of Idols” is another valuable work on myths vs. reality.
#13: Yeah, MZ, be careful or you’ll turn the military against the public. (That editor’s comment was the best laugh of the week.)
Posted by Zen Prole from Urth on 03/16 at 01:26 AMWarfare vs. Health Care:
http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/16886Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 03/16 at 06:28 AMKoyaanisqatsi...a state of life that calls for another way of living
http://www.ratical.org/koya.html
lengthy page with many links.
“We have normalized incoherence”, David Bohm
Posted by joe of maine from on 03/16 at 09:18 AMExcellent discussion going on here as always.
Interesting link:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Reprise_of_Winter_Soldier_antiwar_conference_0315.html
Posted by JOS from Oak Park on 03/16 at 09:59 AMMick, feel free to remove the link to Why Do They Hate US? whenever you or the person who helps you out with the site gets a chance. I took it down. Thanks for keeping the link on your site!
Posted by JOS from Oak Park on 03/16 at 10:02 AMJoe...24...I just learned the above website link shows support of salami balogna in the 2008 elections...I must read more fore I find it difficult to believe the website, owner person individual would put energy into this political system of control and oppression with any optimism it can change...absolutely impossible!
Posted by joe of maine from on 03/16 at 10:07 AMWatching the Sunday morning news shows again (don’t ask me why, old habits die hard I guess)...Jeremiah Wright is being skewered..."God doesn’t love America, God hates America!” Preach on, my friend.
I knew that America’s racism would be revealed once again with this “historic” run by Obama. You can just see the media trying to figure out how to exploit it and revel in it. Too bad Obama is no Malcolm X.
Posted by JOS from Oak Park on 03/16 at 10:10 AMThanks, JOS. I’ll eventually delete your blog link. Any chance of it being revived?
As for the Wright affair, it proves once and for all that Obama is a corporate hack. Anyone with balls would not only defend his friend but would be unafraid to expose America’s crimes.
It’s as if Barack Obama is the inevitable result of decades of conditioning. If he didn’t exist, they’d have to invent him.
Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 03/16 at 10:18 AM“It’s as if Barack Obama is the inevitable result of decades of conditioning. If he didn’t exist, they’d have to invent him.”
Exactly...this guy makes me absolutely sick. He is everything Malcolm X would hate. Got the quote wrong..."it’s not God bless america, God Damn America!”
No chance of Why Do They Hate US? coming back, it’s gone for good...if anything, I may decide to try something completely different some day.
Posted by JOS from Oak Park on 03/16 at 10:25 AMI agree, JOS. Obama is worse than McCain. A bigger liar for sure. Plus, if Obama gets elected, 90% of activists will return to their couches as if their work is done.
If people feel the time is right for a black or female president (with experience as an elected official), I have two words for them: Cynthia McKinney.
Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 03/16 at 10:29 AMToo bad the majority of activists will vote for a Democrat no matter what...someone on that horror of a website Daily Kos commented on your article the other day, “I’ll vote for whatever Democrat is nominated: animal, vegetable or mineral.”
Posted by JOS from Oak Park on 03/16 at 10:35 AMI wouldn’t insult any animal, vegetable, or mineral by using any of those terms to define Obama.
Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 03/16 at 10:37 AMI wonder how much better off the world would be if we elected a rock to the presidency.
Posted by JOS from Oak Park on 03/16 at 10:40 AMhttp://www.imdb.com/name/nm0425005
Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 03/16 at 10:41 AMhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PB0K-PanTc
Posted by JOS from Oak Park on 03/16 at 10:45 AMThe Rock is great but my favorite athlete of all time is the Undertaker...however, I will not vote for anyone accept those who want to start a new society...start small, stay small, think smart, consume what only is necessary, love a lot, be creative, work less.
Posted by joe of maine from on 03/16 at 10:55 AMWow, while I was busy doing the laundry and cleaning behind the furnace, I missed this great discussion.
JOS...Sorry that your site is gone. I liked it! “Too bad Obama is no Malcolm X” - the quote of the day.
joe...in one of my careers I made US cigars in a factory in Pennsylvania. I know why Cubans are better.
I’ll vote for any Democrat who believes much of what Rev Wright does.
Mickey...You said “jazz” - my thought exactly.
No offense intended toward those who are anti-religion here....
“VATICAN CITY (AP) - Pope Benedict XVI issued one of his strongest appeals for peace in Iraq on Sunday, days after the body of the kidnapped Chaldean Catholic archbishop was found near the northern city of Mosul.The pope also denounced the 5-year-long Iraq war, saying it had provoked the complete breakup of Iraqi civilian life.
‘Enough with the slaughters. Enough with the violence. Enough with the hatred in Iraq!’ Benedict said to applause at the end of his Palm Sunday Mass in St. Peter’s Square....”
Posted by RMJ from Ward Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts on 03/16 at 11:01 AMThe Pope forgot to add...enough of american war crimes, prosecute bush and his gang of idiots.
Posted by joe of maine from on 03/16 at 11:26 AMAll this tip-toeing about “our troops”, is simply a function of THE DESPERATE FEAR we have of these three million armed and extremly stupid (as a group) people, a golem we trained with our own money.
Thanks as ever, Mickey, Rosemary and gang, for your wonderful blog.
Posted by Peter (the Other) from California on 03/16 at 12:09 PMjoe #39...I agree. Rev Wright called them war crimes.
Peter...Yes. It is the “tip toeing” that has enabled the war crimes. We need thousands of articles like this last one of Mickey’s. Only when we start calling baby killers, “baby killers” will the taboo against any criticism of the troops be ended. A killer is a killer - it does not matter if he is wearing a uniform or not.
Too few have the courage to call it like it is - Ward Churchill, Malcolm X, Mickey Z, Jeremiah Wright....Posted by RMJ from Ward Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts on 03/16 at 01:15 PMRMJ...41...america is violent...my constant chant of dehumanization, violence and hatred in the wark place reflects the attitude of washington toward the rest of the world and citizens here at home...chain of command in the male dominated hierarchie is the same. The continuity from genghis bush to the department supervisor at wark goes unimpeded. The war is always here...then there’s the road show.
Posted by joe of maine from on 03/16 at 02:22 PMThanks RMJ (#38)
Joe, I agree, America is violent. And it is the worst type of violent...in war, men send troops (who need to be educated) overseas to kill without ever getting blood on their own hands. The violence is bred into us...I have violence in me. I want to show those men what violence is...personally introduce them to the horror of violence...show them what it is really all about and see if they could continue to inflict it on others so readily. My thoughts scare me sometimes...nobody’s perfect.
I even went to the Mixed Martial Arts fights last night. Saw violence up close and personal there. Lots of blood and head cracking. One fighter, whose nickname was “the Babymaker,” wore a sweatshirt that said Fight 4 Christ on the back. My uncle looked over at me when I commented on it and said, “Yeah right...praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.”
We’ve go some messed up psychology here in America.
Posted by JOS from Oak Park on 03/16 at 03:12 PMJOS...43...well said and I agree...until I can separate my molecules and walk through walls...I have the potential to become violent. Krisnamurti addresses violence in humans very well...it’s not inevitable though, that we remain with violence potential
Posted by joe of maine from on 03/16 at 03:18 PMThe walking through walls thing would be great, wouldn’t it?
For most of my life I believed that non-violence was the only way...in some way, deep down, I think I still do...of course, we have gotten into this pretty deeply at MZ’s in the past...in the face of such violence, in the face if the poisoning of the rivers, lakes and oceans, the slaughter of entire species, forced participation in war, in the face of all of that...do we have the right to defend ourselves through force? And that isn’t necessarily directed at you Joe...it’s just that your excellent, intelligent comments (as per usual) got my mind churning in this direction and as you can tell from my numerous comments today I am in a “talkative” mood…
Yes, violence is not inevitable in human kind, I don’t believe that blanket statement that many use as an excuse for their destructive ways, “man is inherently violent.” It is civilization itself that has bred us this way.
Posted by JOS from Oak Park on 03/16 at 03:33 PMJOS..45..I too question a need to revolt..if I’m ready..are others..I don’t stand a chance alone..and this thought, by itself angers me...I can relate to what you said about your thoughts being scary sometimes. I feel humans have the potential to transcend where we are, violent tendencies resolved by the individual, what pisses me off is the controlling facts retard social evolution and it becomes difficult for the individual to gain insight, become more perceptive and evolve beyond previous behavioral tendencies...These days I would rather run from violence and hope I’m not confronted directly...I question my ability to defend myself without some kind of weapon...then I still question...I’ve been feeling old these days.
Posted by joe of maine from on 03/16 at 03:43 PMjoe #42...male dominated in the work place? The most inhumane boss I ever had was a woman but I get your point.
JOS + joe...about violence. Maybe it is a brain chemistry/hormonal thing. I know I have a lot of faults but the tendency towards violence has never been one of them. When I was a child getting beaten up by bigger kids, I could never bring myself to hit back. Culture and testosterone might be related to violence. I have always opposed “sports” and especially wrestling in high schools. My view is very much in the minority.
Posted by RMJ from Ward Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts on 03/16 at 03:49 PMright...it’s all very frustrating to me. there are bad things happening all around us, so overwhelming it is difficult to know where to begin fighting...and those on the other side have the huge machine of our culture to fight with...here I am one person. it’s hard feeling helpless.
Joe, is it bad that I am only 34, yet I feel like I am getting old some days? Hang in there, my friend.
Posted by JOS from Oak Park on 03/16 at 03:55 PMsimultyping, RMJ.
no sports for you, huh? I knew that about you already and I see your side, but it must be a hormonal thing in me...I like the idea of our physical bodies overcoming tests and trials...not the competition with others as much as overcoming battles within our own minds and bodies.
Posted by JOS from Oak Park on 03/16 at 03:58 PMRMJ...47...I’ve had so many jobs so there’s been the opportunity for both male and female irrational control freaks and wark place politics, backstabbing and other folly. The battles I’ve been fighting, mostly and in recent years are with the ‘dragons’ inside me...myself.
Posted by joe of maine from on 03/16 at 04:03 PMJOS...I agree that maximizing our physical/mental bodies is a good thing. It is the one-upsmanship that I think is a negative. That would apply to playing chess or doing anything that depended on competition.
joe...the workplace has become hostile territory and I think it will get worse. As the economy crumbles, there will be a scramble for survival. The “every man for himself” attitude is growing.
Posted by RMJ from Ward Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts on 03/16 at 04:29 PMRMJ..51..yes...every one for themselves, as they’ve become conditioned to accept...rather than work, helping together, cooperatively, to accomplish tasks, develop wholesome human relations, learn from each other and each individual learns more about themselves...blooming like flowers instead of wilting into social decay...the wark place for the most part is the microcosm of washington...it’s frustrating and sad...fearful people and even running from themselves. Then there’s all the very subtle stuff, the negative thoughts and emotions that arise from the oppressive and repressed conditions....the antithesis of life.
Posted by joe of maine from on 03/16 at 04:44 PMIt’s like Mickey has said before. Crowd a bunch of people in an elavator and they all look at the floor. I have been conducting an experiment(very unscientific) When I’m out and about I make eye contact with people and smile at them. Some people will smile back and even say hello but most people automatically look down and won’t aknowledge me. I think we are getting closer and closer to the point that one day you won’t make any contact with people as you go about your daily life. There are more & more devices(video games, computers, movie theatre size TVs, cable, dish, & internet shopping) that enable people to stay indoors. Hell, They even keep family members from communicating with each other. The scene in any typical household on most nights is this: Dad is jerking off to internet porn. Mom is enthralled with the latest reality TV series. Jr is playing with his XBOX 360 and sis is texting her latest BFF. Is this a way that the corporate goons keep us away from one another so we won’t mobilize and actually start a revolution? I don’t have the answer to that but Damn it sure seems that way.
Posted by David from Louisville, KY on 03/16 at 08:29 PMHey everyone, I’m late to this weekend’s comments, but as for The Rock and politics, I’d thought that he was a Scharzeneggersque Republican, but then I found this: http://tinyurl.com/2wwpd7
Posted by James from Hell's Kitchen on 03/16 at 10:41 PMFollowing up on my call to inform the troops, I just got an e-mail about this site:
http://www.girightshotline.orgP.S. New post is up
Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 03/17 at 04:19 AMI agree with the main line of the article, but, not with:
“the morally indefensible and scientifically fraudulent enterprise of animal experimentation.”
please inform yourself before you write. Morally indefensible, I disagree, but this is a subjective question. Scientifically fraudulent: Completely wrong. Most of our knowledge of animal (and hence human) physiology is based on animal experimentation. If you want to find out how a kidney or a liver or a brain work, guess what, you need to do experiments with kidneys, livers or brains. As a zoologist and fellow progressive I am irked by the irrational prejudices against science often seen in left-wing writings.Posted by Klaus Stiefel from Japan on 03/18 at 01:56 AMhttp://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/12483
Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 03/18 at 04:08 AM
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