Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Monday, December 22, 2008
They chattered away the way friends in all cultures do
Am I THE FIRST - or is another expendable simultyping? All will be revealed ..
I always feel uncomfortable when I see a Muslim woman in ‘full traditional garb’ - I can’t help thinking it symbolises oppression - as in Afghanistan where lots of women seem to suffer from impaired vision and other eye diseases, because even their eyes are covered by some sort of thin veil. Sorry about not being able to express the same sentiments as you, Mickey!
Another thing I find troubling is that the birthrate among Muslims is so very high - that signals lower status of women IMHO.
Just saying ..
Posted by Helga Fremlin from Daylesford, Australia on 12/22 at 06:03 PMInteresting and affirming to see the recognition between burka’d friends, but I’m with Helga on the status of women in Islam. Already more advanced in community ethic, if Islam brought their behavior on women into the 20th century, Christianity wouldn’t have a manacled leg left to stand on. (Franklin Graham might have a stroke, perish the hypocrite, I mean thought.) Hadn’t heard about the eye afflictions, either.
Charles’ Photo: clearly, that indigenous woman hasn’t learned the proper means of nonviolent, foundation-based, academic resistance to being deprived of the rudiments of life. And her infant.
(a)Turn(in)styles: these days, cops say “Practicing, huh?” in some very different situations. To their co-workers, maybe, after things that never officially happened.
Just trying to add some Xmas cheer, Expendables!
A re-link to Cockburn, in case anyone missed it: http://tinyurl.com/7ezm4v
Posted by Zen Prole from Turtle Island on 12/22 at 07:11 PMHey Zen and Helga. I agree but it’s still cool - on a purely human cognitive level - that our brains can process so little information into recognizing a loved one. Also, I guess, I see so many Muslim women every single day that I may have become comfortably numb. I can be on the damn treadmill at the gym and turn to see a Muslim women not only walking next to me...but talking on her cell phone as she does.
Ah, progress…
P.S. Thanks for commenting on my poem, Zen. They seem to get lost each day and I can’t remember the last time someone mentioned ‘em.
Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 12/22 at 07:17 PMI think we have to keep in mind that there are a lot of false interpretations of Islam. The kind of oppressive societies in which women are treated the way Helga and Zen describe above are not representative of Islam.
During the time of Mohammad, women were respected. They had property and inheritance rights. Mohammad actually married a woman of wealth and influence, who ran her own business. The polygamy of the day wasn’t unique to Islam, it is a prevalent practice throughout the Christian Bible. Christians tended to be monogamous on account of Jesus’ reinterpretation of orthodox Judaism, but the Bible allows for more than one wife nonetheless.
And the New Testament exhorts women to be submissive to men, who are to rule over their wives.
Women in secular Muslim countries like Iraq were respected, could receive good educations, and advance careers.
People tend to see the strict so-called “sharia” of the Taliban, or of Wahabbist Saudi Arabia, etc. and think this is Islam. But it is not, and their sharia is NOT Islamic Law.
The Quran actually advanced the role of women in the society further than before Islam. It exhorts men to treat their wives kindly, and affirms women’s property and inheritance rights, as well as the right of divorce if their husbands mistreat them. Insofar as it says men are in charge of their wives, it differs nothing from Paul’s writings in the New Testament.
And radical fundamentalist false interpretations like that of the Taliban aside, even in mainstream Islam, there are many customs which do not stem from the Quran, just as Jesus condemned the Sadduccees and Pharisees of his day for holding their traditions above the Law of God and for “yoking” the people with unnecessary burdens and strict interpretations.
Islam and Christianity have more in common than they do apart.
Posted by Jeremy from Taipei on 12/22 at 09:47 PMthe picture of the brazilian woman is incredible.
With regard to the religious thing i just want to say that there is hours of fun in reminding fundamentalist christians that just about the only time jesus got angry was when he threw the money-lenders out the temple.
Posted by michael from not scotland on 12/23 at 02:58 AMAnd you can always count on the vatican for bizarre and intolerant statements too.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7796663.stm
But to be completely fair, they did eventually give galileo a pardon.
in 1992.
Posted by michael from not scotland on 12/23 at 03:01 AMI didn’t even know what the Landless Movement was, so I checked Wikipedia:
Brazil’s Landless Workers Movement, or in Portuguese Movimento dos Trabalhadores Rurais Sem Terra (MST), is the largest social movement in Latin America with an estimated 1.5 million landless members organized in 23 out of Brazil’s 26 states. The MST states it carries out land reform in a country mired by unjust land distribution. In Brazil, 1.6% of the landowners control roughly half (46.8%) of the land on which crops could be grown. Just 3% of the population owns two-thirds of all arable lands.
The MST claims land occupations are rooted in the most recent Constitution of Brazil (1988), by interpreting a passage which states that land should serve a “larger social function”.
Those numbers are insane.
Oh, and your Burka story reminded me of an episode of Star Trek, where one of the main characters had to deal with an alien race who all looked and dressed alike. The Trek guy asked how they could tell themselves apart. The alien paused, then responded, “We just do.”
Posted by Charles from Jersey City on 12/23 at 03:29 AMJeremy, 4...I like your comments...my take is male-made religions as we have known them, have disrespected women, who bring forth and nurture life and are connected to cosmic laws and cycles, male-made religions disrespect all life. The effects of all this is where we’re at on this planet for the most part, where the patriarchs prey.
Posted by joe of maine from on 12/23 at 05:28 AMHi all, need some feedback.
I was all set to sent in a piece to DV suggesting that. If it really wanted to combat racism, America should put it’s foot down federally. I was going to then suggest that it should follow Canada’s example (with French) and make Spanish an official language of the USA and make all government, legal and medical documents bi-lingual. It should then blitz education with it so that future generations of government, legal and medical workers should be bi-lingual.
But then, I stopped writing it as I am wary about looking like i’m backing Obama to be the agent of change etc.
What do you all think?
Posted by Andy from Shanghai on 12/23 at 05:51 AMHello Expendables...from frigid Astoria. Good conversations and comments here.
Andy: I’m not sure how your article would be viewed as pro-Obama but anything is possible these days. Perhaps you should simply add a sentence or two stating otherwise?
Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 12/23 at 06:30 AMWe were talking about flocks of birds the other day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zhDfqmvfkAPosted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 12/23 at 06:30 AMAndy, in answer to your question, I’m not sure I agree. I don’t have any real objections to making Spanish an official second language, per se, but if that means having all road signs in two languages, all legal documents in two languages, etc., its just practically a bad idea. Like take my state MI. The cost of doing all that would be astronomical, and for what? What tiny percentage of the state are solely Spanish-speaking? It would be a total waste.
I’d say that’s a decision for the states, not the federal government.
And if such a thing occurs like in, say, New Mexico, they should also do more to ensure that immigrants who enter the US do so legally.
Posted by Jeremy from Taipei on 12/23 at 08:31 AMFor some reason, I assumed Andy was writing the piece as a Jonathan Swift-style satire. If not, I’d have to agree with Jeremy. It depends on the state or even the municipality. For example - to bring this back to my main post - the stores in Astoria often have signs in English and at least one other language (Greek, Italian, Spanish, Arabic, Croatian, etc.). However, such signs would obviously be superfluous in a homogeneous neighborhood.
Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 12/23 at 10:27 AMThe monotheistic “big three” are history’s greatest pogrom against human evolution, awareness and self-determination.
Kiss a snake or cover your head, who cares.
The treatment and status of women in Islam (or any patriarchal monotheism) is , well, what it is.
I would not deign to tell people how best to prostrate their intellects and imaginations to their chosen space monsters.
Until I have lived inside the confines of their particular cultural afflictions, (every “culture” is somehow afflicted) and learned how best to evolve as a food-powered meat robot on planet Earth, my individual opinion is just whispers in a windstorm.Unfortunately the subject has become a lame default cover/excuse for the War on Terror propaganda justifying endless war against all Muslims domestically and wherever abundant natural resources and coveted “god-brokered” real estate exist.
We must bomb their villages so they can wear bikinis.
The irony of a culture judging, frowning upon or pitying another while their own personal freedoms are being whittled down to an Orwellian caricature, their branded Armies are sent out into the world to kill for profit at great expense to the society and access to the untainted essentials of life is commoditised by a powerful, profit-driven fraction of the population with no interest in the viability or sustainability of their or the surplus population’s “lifestyle” is just sad.
When I hear fanatics screeching that the greatest threat “we” face is that of “Radical Islam” I just want to kick them in the face.
Sadly, there is no cure, violent or benevolent, for stupid.Posted by Xofgnuoy from fucking Canada on 12/23 at 11:09 AMMy view might be a little different than some here. I often have said that I would gladly wear a burka for the rest of my life if I could live in a culture that respected all people - not only the young, wealthy, beautiful people. I find much to admire in other cultures. For one thing - they do not institutionalize their young in day care centers and their elderly in nursing homes. In the USA many are valued by how they look in a bikini.
Posted by RMJ from Ward Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts on 12/23 at 04:04 PMSuch interesting comments from my fellow expendables! Thanks for all of them - must say that I agree with Jeremy #4: when it comes to the treatment of women, Christians have nothing to crow about - indeed Islamic laws seemed to show much more respect for women when it came to such areas as property rights and inheritance. Also liked the links as usual, especially Zen Prole (#2) and Michael (#6, and I have forwarded that one to several gay friends. Mr Helga actually mentioned it at the breakfast table).
Merry Christmas to all of you - including Joe of Maine, Andy and Xofgnuoy and any expendables who might comment later.
I’ll be off to Melbourne shortly with Mr Helga - but back in two days, so I’ll catch up with you then.
Posted by Helga Fremlin from Daylesford, Australia on 12/23 at 04:22 PMXofgnuoy...14...I like you comments and I like your spirit. Your post helped me smile after a long day at wark.
Posted by joe of maine from on 12/23 at 06:01 PMThanks, all. A new post is up...including a photo from RMJ.
Posted by Mickey Z. from Astoria on 12/23 at 07:10 PMInteresting comments. I want to add my own discomfort with most religions, certainly for the ways women are mistreated, but as a gay man, I also want to say how offensive all of the anti-gay nonsense is, too. I DON’T respect all religions. I am an atheist with a Buddhist practice. But I get annoyed when we are made to feel we must “respect” all religions. I personally see it as an extreme delusion used to create solace and enforce rules for the ruling classes. On balance, I believe religions cause more harm than good.
Posted by RichG from Boston on 12/24 at 07:20 PM
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