Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Monday, April 02, 2007
Four Left/Liberal Fantasies
(5) The wrong people are running the system.
(6) A stronger government is needed to keep big business and banks in line.
(7) Revolution is the solution.
(8) Gradual change is better than radical change.
(9) Radical change frightens people.
(10) My way is the right way. Your way is the wrong way.
(11) Russia/China/Vietnam/Cuba/Venezeula shows the way for us.
(12) We need to have more meetings.
Captcha is season as in there is a season for building up and there is a season for tearing down.
Posted by Douglas on from Sydney, Australia 04/02 at 06:19 AM* That the current model of government is “democracy” and that participating in it is better than not.
Posted by Andy on from Shanghai 04/02 at 08:09 AMHello Expendables. It’s still damp and drizzly in NYC.
Douglas: Thanks for the additions to my list. I like what you bring to this comments board. Have you been here before this week?
Andy: I also like your addition. Sadly, there seems to be no end to the denial, huh? And, from last night: sorry to hear of your health woes. Here’s to a healing trend in your life.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 04/02 at 08:13 AMGood stuff. All too true.
I’m still engaging myself over at Stan Goff’s site. Mr. Goff finally responded—with one line. He took one sentence of no consequence out of the dozens of paragraphs I’ve now written over there and said it was a fallacy. He continues to ignore my main points and still refuses to respond to the questions I asked.
Posted by Jeremy R. Hammond on from Taipei, Taiwan 04/02 at 09:05 AMHey man, sorry to have to break the bad news for the vegan community that was revealed yesterday, April 1st--
http://supervegan.com/blog/entry.php?id=760#comments
I’ll never look at my copy of Vegan with A Vengeance the same way again! What a Fool!
Posted by James on from work 04/02 at 09:19 AMJeremy, I admire your perseverance...and wow, this line, “This is a classic non sequitur, a logical fallacy frequently employed for polemical purposes” is classic G.I. Stan. I’m only surprised he didn’t manage to work in “dialectic” and/or “dichotomy” into the mix. (P.S. Extra credit for squeezing in “materialism” whether it’s relevant or not.)
James: Happy April Fool’s Day to you, too.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 04/02 at 09:46 AMAs I have already expressed, ‘take back our country’ is one of the most stupid expressions I have ever heard. I even hear long time activists speaking this nonsense. Since when has the slave, the impoverished ever owned or had anything to say about this country that was stolen from us, as it is stated. WE NEVER HAD THE DAMN THING IN THE FIRST PLACE...if we did, we should be even more embarrassed than we might be for allowing the u.s. to be turned into a cesspool for corruption and violence, to become the planning ground for transporting our shit and dumping it elsewhere...I’m speaking about our ideas [lies], our arm twisting that is called giving aid to others, our manipulation, our force...our complete disregard for life. The dis-ease caused by this disease...take back our country that we have never had for 500 years of it’s violent, perverted existence...all we have known, the minutia we call information and about our lives and our country...who the hell owns this planet?
Posted by Joe of Maine on from Casco Bay 04/02 at 09:58 AMIn line with your 2nd point, here is a posting that succinctly addressees the mental and verbal contortions people put themselves through when trying to discuss the war while still deifying the military.
Posted by DPI on from The NJ 04/02 at 09:58 AMI guess I’ll throw my less than 2 cents in on the Pat Tillman subject. It appears agreed upon, our social conditioning, the various institutes and numerous interactions with others is what might determine how we feel or think about any given subject. I’m not criticizing Pat Tillman for this, but it has not been said enough about our violent society...what influences someone to participate in an athletic event that is so incredibly violent? And in front of spectators?Because like war, we have normalized and accepted many forms of violence. I participated in violent sports years ago...I also simply did not ‘know any different, any better’. Pat Tillman most likely, with everything he did and said, was a polished ‘product’ of a sick society, that has little depth of understanding and that sensationalizes, glorifies and idolizes
dysfunctional behavior. It can be said he was/is still responsible for his actions...I ask, how can anyone really be responsible for themselves when they are simply ‘programmed’ with only an occasional glimpse of consciousness and mostly confused and about what others might expect of them rather than thinking rationally, independently, ethically, holistically in relation to natural laws and not the rules written by a corrupt, amoral, society!Posted by Joe of Maine on from 04/02 at 12:14 PMOh wow, this is really depressing. Joe, at least Casco Bay has some natural beauty. It will be your job today to give the rest of us something to be joyful about.
I like Douglas’s satirical comment, “We need more meetings”. I just received an e-mail from Move/On about their upcoming meetings with all of the dem/repub candidates. Move-on has moved so far into the pro-war camp...oh well, what can I say.
The corporations are in the halls of congress writing the legislation. It won’t matter one bit if ALL of the troops come home tomorrow. The Predatory Capitalists have set up their secret armies (Blackwater,etc). There is NO congressional oversight. There are no rules of engagement. The State/Hate Department is in charge. No one has access to information about the Black Budget. The Constitution is no longer enforceable. The educational system collapsed a long time ago. (What were you taught about usa polices?) The medical system has collapsed for most who cannot pay for it. Illiteracy and life expectancy are worse in the usa than in Cuba and many other less capitalized nations. If it wasn’t for the foreign aid from Chavez, many in the usa would have frozen to death this winter.
Hi andy, Jeremy, James, DPI, Mickey.....Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 04/02 at 12:28 PMJoe...we were symultyping. I like how you bring the whole mess of our culture into the discussion. I especially like that you mention sports/violence. I remember how in the old days, when I questioned sports in the schools, I was always told that it was a good way to teach sportsmanship. Then by a cruel act of fate, I, all 4’10” of me, wound up as a high school basketball coach. (I did not even know how many players were on a team.) I learned very quickly that sports do NOT teach sportsmanship.
I agree with what you say about all of us being “programmed” by the culture. That bothered me for a long time. I have finally come to terms with that fact and now believe that everyone must be held responsible for their actions in spite of the programming...otherwise the Nuremberg Trials would never have happened. I think that those who have committed the atrocities in Iraq and elsewhere are deserving of compassion because they have been “programmed”. And after the compassion they they should be tried for war crimes and meet the same fate as others did at Nuremberg.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 04/02 at 12:42 PMHello RMJ...unfortunately, I cannot think of anything cheerful to speak of except, as you said, the Maine coastline is absolutely beautiful.
Many islands, peninsulas, textures and colors. Great kayaking only a stone throw from where I live in Middle Bay. The Androscoggin River is a 5 minute walk from where I live. It’s fresh water until it flows over damn in Brunswick, then becomes salt, flows to Merry Meeting Bay and evenutally into the North Atlantic at Poppam Beach, also a beautiful long sandy beach and coastline. I encourage anyone to visit Maine and spend time as close as possible to the water...follow the coastline, especially once north of Portland > Freeport. Yes capitalism exists in Maine...so does still, a lot of natural beautfy. Lots of Ospreys, Eagles, Great Blue Herons...Obviously you will be near places that cook shellfish...so what, no one will hold a gun on you and force you to buy it...if they do, offer to buy the gun instead! That’s as upbeat as I can be for the moment...now I must go slit my wrists...(-:Posted by joe of Maine on from 04/02 at 12:43 PMThanks Joe...Your poetic description of the coastline has given me a bit of vicarious comfort. I have seen the Maine shoreline. Of all of the natural beauty in the world, I love the sea the most. The sounds, even the smells are soothing to the soul.
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 04/02 at 01:10 PMRMJ...while in high school, some friends talked me into going out for basketball team because I’m tall. I was terrible at basketball, I was tall. My claim to fame as a starter, I stole the ball from the other team, dribbled my brains out as fast as I could, made a text book lay-up...people were cheering and laughing...yes, you guessed it...it was the wrong basket...it was still a hell of a nice steal and layup...I think it’s good to share with the other team, after all, if we would have won, they would have lost...winners, losers...who the hell needs them?
Posted by joe of maine on from 04/02 at 01:10 PMLove the back and forth here. I’m running out but wanted to share this Che quote:
“For me, the sea has always been a confidant, a friend which absorbs all you tell it without betraying your secrets, and always gives the best advice—a sound you can interpret as you wish. For Alberto, it is a new, oddly perturbing spectacle, reflected in the intensity with which his gaze follows every wave swelling then dying on the beach. At almost thirty, Alberto is seeing the Atlantic for the first time and is overwhelmed by a discovery which opens up infinite routes to all points on the globe. The fresh breeze fills the senses with the power of the sea, it transforms all it touches.”
—Ernesto “Che” Guevara
The Motorcycle Diaries, 1951I’ll see you all later…
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 04/02 at 01:13 PMLiberal Fantasy List: “I’m OK. You’re OK.” And nevermind my secret collection of very small shoes.
Joseph Goebbels wrote in his diary “Once we have the power we will never give it up. They will have to carry our dead bodies out of the ministries.” As an obedient lefty, I argue that he was just bluffing and that a demonstration or two would have brought him around. Who’s got the poster board and watercolors?
Captcha sez “leaders.” I say “strike three.”
Posted by Zen Prole on from Urth 04/02 at 02:46 PMMickey,
I was here late last year.
Joe,
I think when the liberals say that the people should take the country back, they are not refering to the non-people who never had the country in the first place.
We non-people are invisible to the real people. We are stepped over, pushed aside, knocked down, taken for granted. The real people get annoyed when we speak up because we become visible for a moment.
The real people are upset now because they are in danger of becoming non-people.
Zen Prole,
There was one successful protest against the Nazis (see http://tinyurl.com/yunphk). This was the Rosen Strasse protests by women who wanted their Jewish husbands back.
Posted by Douglas on from Sydney, Australia 04/02 at 04:12 PM* consuming/watching/doing the same things as all supposed non-revolutionaries but doing it in an ironic manner changes things and has quantifiable value.
* people really want to know what we think about what some bearded dead bloke said more than a hundred years ago (note: this one was borrowed)
Posted by michael on from scotland 04/02 at 04:14 PM* PBS is the one true progressive voice in the cacophony of right wing media propaganda.
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 04/02 at 04:47 PMliberal fantasy
*that charitable donations help in the long run...especially ‘save the children’ and other so called christian missions of hope.
I am really appreciating the very beautiful and flowing dialogue here today. Thanks.Posted by frances on from bc 04/02 at 05:25 PMDouglas- Thanks for the info on the Rosenstrasse Protest. I’d never heard of it, and it’s unbelievable. I’m going to send the link to a friend in Germany.
So, Expendables, what say we start a petition with today’s superlative list entries?
Posted by Zen Prole on from Urth 04/02 at 07:23 PMHello Expendables. I’d like to echo Frances and say: I am really appreciating the very beautiful and flowing dialogue here today. Thanks.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 04/02 at 08:41 PM
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