Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Thursday, September 07, 2006
"Seduced by the trappings of authority"
Milgram’s (and Zimbardo’s) studies were part of my A-Level Psychology (not sure what the US equivalent would be, but its a fairly crap qualification). The pair of them definitely caused more upset and aggression from my fellow students than everything else on the course combined - they really do reveal the gap between the myth of the rational actor, and the reality of our conditioning. Personally, I thought it was one of the few truly useful things I ever learnt about in my ‘education’.
(p.s. It’s Uncle Joe’s b’day in the next couple of days, birthday cheers might incite him to post...)Posted by Mew on from at "work" 09/07 at 06:19 AMGood mornin’ Mew and very HAPPY BIRTHDAY WISHES TO UNCLE JOE.
Today’s topic is very near and dear to my heart. My Act of Obedience to a Higher Authority (my conscience) which led to my arrest was one of the most difficult things I have ever done in my lifetime. At the time I didn’t know why simply standing in silence with my head bowed while holding a sign was so excruciatingly difficult. I was not prepared for the inner feelings I was having. I was not afraid of the police. I was not afraid of being arrested. I was only slightly afraid of the 18-wheeler inching up on me. It was not till I was alone that night and had time to think about what had happened that day that I realized that it was the breaking of the taboo against disobedience that was so traumatic. My ethnicity, the culture, and my Catholic school education all contributed to imprinting on my psyche such a strong need to be obedient. Now I wish that I had been arrested much earlier in my life. It was a very “freeing” experience.Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 09/07 at 08:59 AMHello Expendables...from sunny Astoria. The odd trend continues here. Traffic is up but comments are sporadic. Maybe if we all wish Uncle Joe a swell b’day, he’ll comment the night away.
Anyway, today’s post is sobering wake-up call for those who chant “all you need is love.” Love is great...but it’s not all we need. Somewhat related: My “how to win a fight” series got prominently posted as one long lesson today at Guerilla News: http://www.gnn.tv
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 09/07 at 10:34 AMHi Mickey...I like your article but I still say that if you’re a 4’10”, 90 LB weakling, you don’t stand a chance up against someone much bigger. Sorry, I know a lot of you here disagree with me on that but.....Here’s a link to another area of controversy.
http://tinyurl.com/zznn9Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 09/07 at 10:45 AMMy advice for a 4’10”, 90 LB weakling: make friends with bigger, stronger people.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 09/07 at 10:48 AMMorning all...happy birthday, Uncle Joe.
$2.3 trillion in military spending was unaccounted for as of 9/10/01 at the Pentagon? That story faded pretty quickly didn’t it RMJ? BUt what’s a few trillion here or there…
Posted by JOS on from Chicago 09/07 at 10:55 AMHey JOS. A trillion here, a trillion there...pretty soon we’re talking about real money.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 09/07 at 11:04 AMMickey #5...that’s why I am hanging out here making friends with you !
JOS...I don’t believe all of the conspiracy theories but I think that there are a lot of unanswered questions and a very long history of government deceit. I want a t-shirt that says, “QUESTION EVERYTHING”. About the trillion dollar question, the Black Budget makes the real amount and a cover-up easy.Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 09/07 at 11:15 AMThanks everyone and hi! I guess I have to say something now dont I. Got to admit I am not a great fan of my own birthday but looking forward to a drink or two with Mr Mew and comparing notes. Comment the night away? Now there is a challenge. I am certainly enjoying the contributions on Cool Observer these past few days, I will try to say a little more, but you all do it so well for me.
Posted by Uncle Joe on from skiving work 09/07 at 11:35 AMHello Uncle Joe. Is today the big day?
Off-topic (if there is a topic): I just turned on the classic rock station and heard Elton John’s “Funeral for a Friend/Loves Lies Bleeding.” It’s easy to forget that Elton once made some good music. That song is amazing.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 09/07 at 12:29 PMFantastic stuff today Mickey.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague (Jackowski election hdqts) 09/07 at 06:42 PMAnd happy birthday to Uncle Joe.
Posted by Keir on from The Hague (Jackowski election hdqts) 09/07 at 06:43 PMHi Keir....
Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 09/07 at 06:56 PMThanks, Keir.
I just got this typical e-mail in reaction to my “no innocent bystanders” article: if only that SUV had run your “cant we all just get along” naive ass over and ground you into the pavement, then the world would be a better place. its funny, you hate America so much.. but you live here! why dont you move to Cuba and practice your marital art vegan eating horse hockey there? Or North Korea perhaps? I hear its wonerful in the Spring!
I respond to all such e-mails like this: Get back to me when you have an original thought.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 09/07 at 07:23 PMJust found this from John Steinbeck:
“I have named the destroyers of nations: comfort, plenty, and security - out of which grow a bored and slothful cynicism, in which rebellion against the world as it is, and myself as I am, are submerged in listless self-satisfaction.”
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 09/07 at 07:25 PMHappy Birthday Uncle Joe!!!! and Hi to the rest of you.
The psychological conditioning of the individual torturer can be described on the basis of this evidence. The Greek experience (1967-1974) is known in greatest detail. After basic training young conscript soldiers from known anti-communist families were selected for special training for the military police. Further screening produced the chosen few to be trained as torturers. This “distinction” carried special privileges - prestige, the use of a car, non-commissioned officer rank, extra pay and time off, and a posting in the metropolis rather than the provinces or the frontier. Most were from country or working class families, so these privileges and the guaranteed public service job after leaving active duty were strong incentives to accept a post in the elite corps. They were not initially aware of the duties of this corps. A large part of their training consisted of being beaten by fellow conscripts. The officers who trained them ordered them to eat the straps to their berets, to kneel and swear allegiance to portraits of commanding officers, to perform demeaning acts like pretending to make love to a woman in front of the other soldiers. After ideological indoctrination and psychological conditioning, they were assigned first to guard prisoners, then to arrest suspects, and finally to torture them. Hesitation to torture led to ridicule, more beatings, threats to transfer and loss of privileges, and threats to the economic livelihood of the conscript’s family.The general picture that emerges of torture agencies from these trials and testimonies is of an elite group, often specially trained to torture, who have an elevated view of their role in protecting state security against “subversives”. State propaganda reinforces this view, as does any real violence perpetrated against the state or their colleagues by opposition groups. If they are aware that their acts are criminal, they also know that their superiors will protect them in the unlikely event that the state attempts to prosecute them. Under pressure to get results (logistical information, confessions, names of the suspect’s associates), they know that their future career depends on getting those results regardless of the method. (Torture In The Eighties: An Amnesty International Report. pg. 10)
Posted by TM on from 09/07 at 08:05 PMExcellent excerpt, TM. Thanks.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 09/07 at 08:09 PMAre you aware of this book? American Methods: Torture and the Logic of Domination by Kristian Williams.
The author argues that the U.S. Government has used torture as a method of social control and terror since the 1980s. Mr. Williams cites the 2004 Abu Ghraib prison incident, where American military personnel were investigated for the abuse of prisoners, as an example of traditional American torture.
According to Williams, torture is an everyday tool of dominance and terror in the United States. American Methods is a damning audit of the US record in underwriting human rights violations around the globe. In the last 25 years alone and under several administrations, we confront death squads in El Salvador, genocidal campaigns in Turkey, brutal interrogations done on our dime, even in our name by various “friendly governments,” and more. Returning to our shores, Williams observes the banality of violence at home—on both sides of the prison wall. What emerges is the distinct character of American torture, particularly its emphasis on sexual violence, misogyny, and racialized spectacle.
Ultimately, American Methods offers devastating conclusions about the centrality of rape, racism, and conquest to both the state and our national culture.
Posted by dw on from 09/07 at 09:05 PMI haven’t heard of that book, DW...but this sounds right to me: “torture is an everyday tool of dominance and terror in the United States.”
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 09/07 at 09:28 PMHey Mickey Z., there needs to be another counter-culture. What do you think?
Posted by dw on from 09/07 at 09:57 PMA counterculture is good, DW but as long as the dominant culture is threatening all life on the planet, we’ll always be in danger.
Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 09/08 at 05:22 AM
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