Mickey Z

Cool Observer

Wednesday, July 12, 2006

Taking the Fifth

Posted by Mickey Z on 07/12 at 04:02 AM

Okay okay, if we follow Mickey’s article from yesterday, maybe we’ll all be built like Brad Pitt in this photo. And let me be the first to mention that well over 1/5th of Expendables want to hear from Mudge today, but less than 1% of us have seen a comment from him.

Woe is me! Maybe I will call him with my cell phone. I can’t go more than ten minutes w/o using it anyway.

Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 07/12 at 04:54 AM

I cannot recall the details (typical for me - it’ll come to me 3 days from now) but I’m aware of some social programmes which provide a cell phone to a single individual in an underdevelopped area with the premise being to allow the much needed access to an area / village without any telecommunication services, and doubly allowing the individual to become an entrepreneur...they’ll charge for the use of it. Now, I appreciate that communication is vital and that the service isn’t free, however surely there’s a better way to do things? Overall it seemed to me that it was more a humanitarian undertaking than a capitalistic one, but it left me feeling rather ambiguous about it all.

I very seldom use my cellphone but rather take it with me just for safety’s sake so as not be caught on the highway with no means of calling for a tow or some such eventuality, and the battery often runs out without me even noticing. The odd time that it does actually ring, it usually startles me.

Nice articles, and nice photos of Astoria, MZ. Looks like a nice place...much more low rise than is my vision of New York. (or perhaps I should say there’s a “lack” of high-rises?)

Posted by Amelopsis on from CAnada 07/12 at 07:30 AM

... and when it all goes away… we (hopefully) wake up with drops of rain hitting us in the face… thinking, “what do we do next?”

Nice Link:
http://dougdowd.org/NewFiles/classesmain.html

Always a good book:
http://tinyurl.com/jcqjd

Posted by Robert B. Livingston on from San Francisco 07/12 at 09:06 AM

Top of the morn y’all.

@ MZ: Kudos to you for the fantastic list yesterday re: health and diet, etc.

@ James: (sighs, then shakes head)...

OT: 6,527,855,540 (@9:03 AM CST, 06.12.06)

That’s the current world population estimate, as determined by the U.S. Census Bureau, which will only increase by the second: census.gov/ipc/www/popclockworld.html

Thousands of bloody, screaming, kicking, crying, defenseless, dependent kids take their first breath of air every few minutes.

Here’s something else to ponder: there is no biological “need” to create children.

Posted by RT on from The Buyou City 07/12 at 09:06 AM

i recently watched an old film scripted by hg wells where his character asked “why should the monopoly on breeding be given to those who don’t care”

or something like that

my captcha was “england”

as a scotsman i feel the urge to say “booo”

Posted by michael on from exile 07/12 at 09:29 AM

MZ, it’s a useful thing to come accross stats like the ones you are showing us today. Good stuff! I think we should also remember, at least it suits me personally, that most of us cannot remotely conceive of the poverty levels that the majority of people live under.

At times we all get bogged down with life and basically spit our dummies out. “My lot ain’t fair” etc. I try sometimes to remind myself how damn lucky I am just to be so wealthy in basic things, but the fact is, I really can’t for the life of me imagine a different way of living. Not to the extremes we’re talking about, at least.

There are several huge supermarkets within one mile of my house, and those include the giganto hypermarket places. It disgusts me, because you know what? I need practically none of what they sell.

Captcha says “cost.” Wise captcha.

Posted by Chris Wood on from Manchester, odd wet lovely Manchester 07/12 at 10:03 AM

Hello Expendables...from humid, muggy, sodden, soggy, moist Astoria.

James: You’re sounding awfully desperate. I suggest you try playing hard to get.

Empress: So great to have you back here on a regular basis. Yes, Astoria is low rise. As you probably know, NYC is made up of 5 boroughs. The true skyscrapers are all stacked on Manhattan island (which we call “the city"). Astoria is town-like, a true neighborhood...and buildings rarely rise higher than four stories.

Robert: Nice see you again. Thanks for the links.

RT: Child-free and loving it

Chris: So true. Whenever I foolishly call myself a “struggling writer,” I make myself wince. Struggling? I sleep in an air conditioner-cooled apartment, when I flick on the light switch I know it will turn on, when I turn on the faucet I know I’ll get water of the temperature I prefer, when I’m hungry I open the fridge and find something delicious to eat, and so on and so on. Hard to call that “struggling,” huh?

Captcha sez: Picture...as in “get the...?”

Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 07/12 at 10:23 AM

Oops...sorry, Michael. Forgot to acknowledge your comment.

Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 07/12 at 10:43 AM

Mornin’

Child-with or Child-free? Does it matter that much when we’re staring down the barrel of species extinction within 100 years? My main reason for not having children would be because I feel the world is to toxic and uncertain to want to bring them into it. Funny then that my main reason for attempting to have children is because I still have hope for there future.

This is probably a good time to mention that my Wife’s like 6 weeks pregnant.

I think I have to call you out on that one RT. There most certainly is a “biological” need to create children. It’s our intellect that allow us to make the choice.

P & L
Luna

Captcha = color

Posted by Luna_C on from The Delta 07/12 at 10:44 AM

Uh-oh...looks like my fight article is about to come in handy. RT, I’ll hold your coat.

Congrats, Luna. May your hope for the future prove us all wrong.

Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 07/12 at 10:50 AM

Yes, Luna, well done & all the best to your missus! May the world your child grows up in be more full of hope and peace than the world of today. It is possible, I’m sure. I’m getting to be more optimistic every day.

Today, for example, I spent the day with my tutor group for next year. These guys are 10, brimming with enthusiasm & playful, innocent childishness. A good deal different from many of the kids I teach!

While the day was exhausting, it was also delightful - I can tell a good heart when I see one, I think, & many of these kids I would say qualify. Plenty of fun filled spirits, too.

Until recently I’d have said that there was no point in raising children in our shitty world. Days like today make me think otherwise. Although (completely!) tiring, those kids did fill me with a zest I haven’t known for some time. So all the best to you.

I may think about having kids myself soon! Captcha says “science.” Does this mean I’m firing blanks?

Posted by Chris Wood on from Manchester, odd wet lovely Manchester 07/12 at 10:56 AM

off topic but lately been lookng at more and more ecolgy stuff

if you havent already then read “the blind watchmaker” by richard dawkins.

it may also disappoint you to know that the west african black rhino appears to be extinct.

http://tinyurl.com/ebblx

captcha is “reaction”

“for every little action, there is a ...”

Posted by michael on from exile 07/12 at 11:30 AM

Luna, all my best wishes to you and your wife and your soon to be tiny little proginy.

However, I’ll take up RT’s point (I think) and say that there’s very little other than eating/drinking, expelling waste, and breathing that is truly a biological imperative for us as a species. All the rest of our behaviours are a matter of choice.
I truly believe that any urge to breed stems strictly from our social conditioning. (otherwise wouldn’t women be physiologically programmed to become ill, or die, or some such if we didn’t produce offspring?)
I myself have come to consider the world as being far too overpopulated to consider adding to the ranks of humanity - it’s just too shitty a planet. While I can sympathise with the belief of many who think that their child ‘might just be the one to make a difference in the world’, rational thought makes me think that is just over-rationalising to suit one’s desires.
The best thing I’ve seen lately, that really made me feel there might be some hope yet, was a group of school kids in Toronto talking about the green roof on their school. It was a beautiful thing to hear a five year old quite intelligently listing the many ways in which his elders so commonly behave in ecologically abhorent and irresponsible ways. I hope that he retains his attitudes into his adulthood....it’s the only hope for his generation.

As for the extinction of the Rhino...I could cry.

“WHY”???!!!

Posted by Amelopsis on from CAnada 07/12 at 12:00 PM

Michael: That story is heartbreaking. I’ll re-post it tomorrow.

Empress: I’m with you.

Luna: Sorry if we’re a pessimistic lot but...well, we are. At least Chris sounds upbeat, huh?

Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 07/12 at 12:31 PM

Luna, no offense taken,I hope.

I think that if humanity must continue to breed, there are no better candidates than those who are mindful of larger matters concerning the planet and who have a responsible (in my opinion) social conscience.
My good wishes to you are most sincere.

btw...part of the NUtI would be that breeding must be carried out only upon approval and issuance of a license to do so. Licenses will be strictly limited and aversion therapy will be in place to promote adoption until the generational population growth has been curtailed and become globally balanced.
HA!

Posted by Amelopsis on from CAnada 07/12 at 01:15 PM

Hellos to everyone here today. You have some interesting topics going.

The topic of poverty is a great one. Poverty in the land of plenty is a very interesting social phenomena. I have been blessed to have been OK during much of my life but did have a few periods when food was an issue. Surprizingly, one of these periods was when I was a young teacher in New Jersey. I was on the bottom of the pay scale, making approx $3000/year. During the week I would eat very inexpensively in the school cafeteria but on week ends, I often went with no food all week-end. I still remember looking forward to noon on Mondays when I would get to eat. There are now times that I am a little bit grateful that I had that experience. Somehow, I think being hungry without access to food changes a person. I have not yet decided whether that change is a good thing or a bad thing. In more recent years, I have worked with the very poor. There are some very unique things that I observed while working with them. One of these things was that they all tended to keep their shades down and blinds closed. I came to understand that they did that because they lived in a state of fear that someone might see something and “turn them in” to the government for some some sort of a real or imagined violation.

About the “baby” issue. I agree that maybe none of us has a unique genetic contribution to make to the universe but there is another issue here that is often ignored. One reason that some women have babies is because of a very strong maternal instinct. I think that it is wrong to expect all of the women who happen to have it, to just ignore it. My daughter is about to have her second baby. She is a superb mother. It might be a little selfish and self-serving to have babies but so are many other human activities ---sex, sports, drinking beer, enjoying art and music, eating cup cakes, walking on the beach, planting flowers, writing poetry, daydreaming........ I think that the “baby” issue is a personal choice and every one’s choice should be respected.....but telling a woman with a strong maternal instinct that she should not have a baby would be like telling an 18 year old male not to have sex.

Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 07/12 at 01:23 PM

Hi Amelopsis. We were simultyping. About the adoption option. In the usa it costs too much. Those without the money can’t do it.

Posted by RMJ on from Churchill 4 Prez Hdqts 07/12 at 01:29 PM

Thanks everyone! We are very excited and have our fingers crossed for a healthy child of some sort.

No offense taken Amelo.

I really think to breed or not to breed is a very personal question. heheh ;)

Ugh my turn to be depressing…

First Korea’s 4th of July display

Then the India Bombings yesterday…

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1818696,00.html

Captcha = “him” but a her would be nice too.

Posted by Luna_C on from workies 07/12 at 03:56 PM

And more photos as well as a great quote by Mr Gould. But wait, there’s more - thanks, Mickey! I’ve got quite a few books by Stephen Jay Gould - that man wrote so well, and he did it quite effortlessly while giving the reader lots of information. He is like Edmund White in this respect: he could not have written badly even if he had tried.

And good morning/afternoon my expendables James, Amelopsis, Robert B Livingston,RT, Michael, Chris Wood, Luna_C (I fully agree with you re childlessness - Mr and Mrs Helga have made the same choice and for largely the same reasons), and Rosemarie. Be well, all of you and be well, Mickey.

Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 07/12 at 04:37 PM

And that is a great quote from H G Wells, Michael!

Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 07/12 at 05:14 PM

Oops, Luna_C - I did not read through all of your post. Of course I wish you and your wife all the best and hope your child will make all the difference. Here’s a funny piece by Michelangelo Signorile on “Kids these Days”:

http://www.nypress.com/print.cfm?content_id=8922

Let’s hope the link works ..

Posted by Helga Fremlin on from Daylesford, Australia 07/12 at 05:22 PM

Hello Expendables. Mickey your post brought to mind a quote from Stanley Kubrick I heard recently…

“We are the link between apes and human beings.”

...and a refrain from a work of mine…

“We are the problem that faces me.”

On the child issue I have to say that although I like kids (I just finsished a two and a half year stint as a nursery school teacher and a damn good one too) I don’t see this place, Earth, as being a particularly safe environment for them. Protecting children---yours or mine or theirs, it’s all the same---is like Sisyphus pushing the rock up the hill: you have to do it, but you just can’t.

I mean jesus h christ on this rock we can’t even protect gigantic thick-skinned wild beasts with horns. From ourselves.

That all said, Luna I am placing your baby on my list of people for whom I am trying to make this planet good again.

PS: worthy reading here.

Posted by Keir on from The Hague 07/12 at 07:00 PM

Hello again, everyone. Welcome RMJ, Helga, and Keir. I’ve really enjoyed this week here.

Keir: This line of yours brought tears to my eyes: Luna, I am placing your baby on my list of people for whom I am trying to make this planet good again. Thanks…

Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 07/12 at 07:17 PM

Hi all. Back from a tiring day at work, and just now settling down for the eve…

@ MZ: I read that BBC article on EU birth rates dropping, back when it was published. I especially liked the concluding quote.

@ Luna: Sorry to disappoint, but I (and many other male friends I’ve known) have never had a biological need to have children. Many have wanted them at some point in their lives, but that’s far different than a biological need (at least as I understand modern science). And I suppose many of those who practice abstinence, have vasectomies, have their tubes tied, or are even homosexual feel the same way…

Anyway, congrats to you Luna_C. May your future child be healthy, happy and make a difference in the world.

@ Keir: I echo your sentiment towards Luna_C. We need more Lunas, Mickey Z’s, Keirs, and RMJ’s in the world…

Anyway, good night y’all (from a hot and sticky shack near the Gulf Coast)

P.S. - Current conditions in the Buyou City at 7:23 PM: 90F, feels like 107F (thanks to the damn humidity)...

Posted by RT on from The Buyou City 07/12 at 07:25 PM

RT: we simply need fewer expendables, more Expendables.

Posted by Keir on from The Hague 07/12 at 07:31 PM

for some reason I thought Astoria was SUV-free don’t know why just did.

On phones notice how phones have changed communication not just cellphones. With cellphones (is that one word or two) you can blab your whole business to the entire world.
There is this one commercial that’s really stupid it’s a PSA on HIV/AIDS one friend is instant messaging another friend about a mutual friend who just found out she is HIV positive. Is this the kind of news you would want to receive by instant message?
first friend: Sally has HIV
second friend: bummer :(
On the house phone you have the option of caller id. with caller id you can screen your phone calls by either not picking up or if you are talking to one person and someone else calls to ignore the irritating beep. “so then beep beep and now we are seperating” Or if the conversation you are holding doesn’t suit your fancy when the other line rings you can tell the other person you are talking to that you have someone important waiting on the other line.

Posted by TM on from 07/12 at 07:36 PM

Congratulations Luna_C!!! hope you have a happy healthy baby!!

Posted by TM on from 07/12 at 07:39 PM

Hello TM. I’m not sure if you were kidding but all of NYC is loaded with SUVs.

Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 07/12 at 07:45 PM

Oh for the love of god, who wants to bring any more kids into a world where Mudge isn’t posting comments regularly?

Sorry, I waited as long as I could with that one.

Posted by James on from Hell's Kitchen 07/12 at 07:55 PM

@ Keir (#25): Right on… and may the Expendable world of difference be realized.

@ all SUV drivers: I shout at and ridicule to no end…

@ James (#29): I laugh (just keep your new pants on, ok?)

Posted by RT on from The Buyou City 07/12 at 08:17 PM

Taking the fifth...and elsewhere leaving a quarter…

Jacques Cousteau’s son just told me through the talking picture box that shark populations have been reduced by 75% in the last 20 years. For others watching he further clarified that this means 3 out of 4 are now gone.

Before telling me that, he casually through out: “...if the killing of over one hundred million sharks each year is not stopped or reduced...”

At the end of the show, “she” was irate, irrated, upset and feeling impotent (can “she’s” do that?) upon considering how much lip service has accompanied this 20 year decline and unfettered extinction of so many of our fellow Earthlings.

Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 07/12 at 08:41 PM

Oh Oh!

I left out the good part! That most sharks are killed for the ultra luxurious consumption of fin soup is quite ironic...most of the fins tested prove to contain more than 42% higher levels of mercury than are advisable for human consumption.

The feared man-eating sharks are more dangerous to your health after one’s killed and eaten them, than they are if you swim in their midst.
Of course, there’s “always” the exception to the rule...those are the stories making the headlines in lieu of the oceanic genocide.

Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 07/12 at 08:45 PM

Mickey, earlier: “Sorry if we’re a pessimistic lot but...well, we are.”

My response: !

Here is a someone’s nice description of Buckminster Fuller, whose birthday is today:

Fuller was a practical philosopher and a dogged individualist whose genius was felt throughout the world for nearly half a century. But he had a very rough start. In 1927, at the age of 32, Buckminster Fuller stood on the shores of Lake Michigan, preparing to throw himself into the freezing waters. His first child had died. He was bankrupt, discredited and jobless, and he had a wife and new-born daughter. On the verge of suicide, it suddenly struck him that his life belonged, not to himself, but to the universe. He chose at that moment to embark on what he called “an experiment to discover what the little, penniless, unknown individual might be able to do effectively on behalf of all humanity.”

For the rest of his life, he addressed himself to the largest questions he could formulate. He sought to discover what it would take to “make the world work”—that is, to provide adequate food, energy, and shelter for 100% of humanity. As a part of this grand quest, he built his most famous invention, the geodesic dome–the lightest, strongest, and most cost-effective structure ever devised.

In 1959, Fuller predicted the conquest of poverty by the year 2000. In 1977, almost twenty years later, the National Academy of Sciences confirmed Fuller’s prediction. Their World Food and Nutrition Study, prepared by 1,500 scientists, concluded, “If there is the political will in this country and abroad… it should be possible to overcome the worst aspects of widespread hunger and malnutrition within one generation.”

Although poverty and hunger are still with us, more and more they are man-made, not the result of whimsical natural forces beyond our control. If, as Fuller predicted, it is possible to eliminate world hunger and poverty within our lifetime, we must find the political will.

This amazing engineer and inventor was also a transcendentalist philosopher who believed that the mind—which is much too big for the brain—generates intuitions that free us from from our conditioning.

His words ring true today and we would be wise to heed them:
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”

(I posted the whole thing because thew link may not work tomorrow.)
http://tinyurl.com/kkgv2

Have hope always Expendables!

Posted by Robert B. Livingston on from San Francisco 07/12 at 09:13 PM

Thank you, everyone, for an amazing day here. Whenever I question my writing career (sic), I remind myself I must be doing something right to have lured this group to my blog.

Empress, re: sharks: http://tinyurl.com/pcbds

G’night, all…

Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 07/12 at 09:14 PM

Whenever I need a tonic after looking in at other blogs with ‘discussion’, I find it here. We don’t always agree but it’s so very enjoyable to leave the one-upsmanship to others and share opinions with civil and thoughtful people, courtesy of Mickey’s Cool Observer.

Thanks for the shark link, Mickey.

If anyone wants their mind blown by an exotic bird, check out the you tube video in Michael the Tub Thumper’s latest post: http://tinyurl.com/zr4au

Posted by Amelopsis on from Canada 07/12 at 09:47 PM

Hello all,

First time caller, long time listener. It’s 11:15 and no one will likely read this post, so I feel less pressure to perform, so to speak. Anyway, as far as the baby issue goes, I (with my wife, of course) have a one year old. While it may seem selfish or foolhardy to bring another person into this circus, I think it is absolutely necessary. Besides the great joy it brings you personally, it is important for the larger cause. If the people who are interested in improving things don’t have kids, while the apathetic breed wildly.... the results are predictable, and the mathematics are pretty hard to get around. Unless liberals, leftists, environmentalists or whatever we all ourselves become evangelical, and more successfully evangelical at that, the best bet is to have kids. And to raise said kids with values and a vision that can lead to better things. I went to what I guess you would call a pagan/environmentalist gathering, and there were 100+ people between 30-60. Amongst all of them (this is unscientific) I doubt they had 20 children. Without some base, change will be very difficult. If we have to constantly sell our ideas to people who find them utterly foreign, the movement will not meet with success. Thanks for letting me join the fray. Be well!

Posted by DPI from the NJ on from New Jersey 07/12 at 10:31 PM

mickey reads them all even if he can’t respond to them all so i am sure he will say something tomorrow - check your email…

i think what you just said said mirrors very well what hg wells said in the quote i mentioned in comment no.5

if i remember the name of the film i will post it

and…

HELLO!

Posted by michael on from exile 07/12 at 10:38 PM

Speaking of cell phones…

Posted by James on from work 07/13 at 12:30 AM

the name of the film i mentioned is “things to come”

its a free download and although i don’t agree with most of it is DEFINITELY worth a watch.

here is the blurb…

Things to Come - Alexander Korda
Things to Come opens with a near-future forecast of Christmas 1940 in the metropolis of Everytown (obviously London), a city threatened by world war. Pacifist intellectuals, such as John Cabal (Massey), try to turn the tide. But Cabal’s efforts go unheeded by the self-interested classes, and war arrives with tanks and aeroplanes and gas bombs. Everytown is destroyed by air raids (dramatically enacted four years before the real thing)...

Posted by michael on from exile 07/13 at 01:47 AM

Hey DPI, you did it. You broke the ice. Thanks for the provocative comment. I do hope it’s the first of many.

Posted by Mickey Z. on from Astoria 07/13 at 04:21 AM

Thanks for all the well wishes everyone. Thanks for all the well wishes everyone.

DPI I completely agree with you! It was this article

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20060314/oplede14.art.htm

That got me to want like 9 children. Lol ! Well at least two and then adopt a bunch. Can’t let the majority of the future be raised in the mindset that got us into this mess in the first place! ;)

Robert B. Livingston Thank you for the Buckminister Fuller reminder. He was an awesome man. Funny, his origin story sounds like another one of my heroes Emperor Norton!

http://www.zpub.com/sf/history/nort.html

That’s what drives me crazy. We’ve had the ability to bring utopia into reality here on planet Earth for centuries. It’s the petty evil mindedness of the controlling banking elite that has derailed our evolutionary path and put us into global slavery and at risk of extinction!! Those bloody bloody bastards…

P & L every Expendable.  

Posted by Luna_C on from workies 07/13 at 01:19 PM

I’m not too proud to say I checked in a couple days late to see if I got any sort of comment. I feel very excited to see I got some response. Maybe I just need friends. Be that as it may, I would definitely recommend having a child if you are so inclined. I know it sounds clichéd, but being part of something that’s living that came from you is really indescribable. It really is. Besides putting me off meat forever, it really made me feel alive. More alive than I’ve been in a long time. I guess I can’t explain it, but please, go ahead. DPI

Posted by DPI on from The NJ 07/15 at 01:09 AM