Mickey Z
Cool Observer
Tuesday, March 15, 2005
Nick Mamatas interviews Mickey Z. (Summer 2004)
(I never got around to posting this here when it was first done so the election references are obviously dated. However, with the March 19 protests on the horizon, I thought now might be a good time.)
Nick: “I first met Mickey Z. in 1999 when I was doing some freelance editing for New York’s Soft Skull Press. The early draft of his radical critique of ‘The Greatest Generation’ myths, ‘Saving Private Power,’ was more than just the usual by-the-numbers leftism; the book was shot through with insights and a taste for irony that grad school usually drums out of even anti-authoritarian historians. I was still surprised to find out that Mickey wrote the book with little more than a high school diploma, a New York Public Library card, and a vision of a world where social justice is something other than the punchline to a joke about how naïve the Left is.
Nick Mamatas
http://www.livejournal.com/users/nihilistic_kid
“Since then, Mickey has written or edited several other books: ‘The Murdering Of My Years’ (Soft Skull) is his 2003 collection of interviews with artists and activists on how escaping the day job and finding a life filled with self-valorizing labor. This year, Mickey released two books. ‘Seven Deadly Spins’ (Common Courage) investigates and dissects a century of US war propaganda, and A ‘Gigantic Mistake: Articles and Essays for Your Intellectual Self-Defense’ (Wildside Press) goes beyond politics to tackle the absurdities and inanities of everyday life itself.
“Mickey lives with his wife Michele in Queens, and when not agitating, he writes poetry and teaches kickboxing.”
SAMPLE Q&A:
NM: You’re an anti-war vegan activist who still supports Nader at least partially because Kerry will simply extend and perpetuate the war in Iraq. However, you’re also a martial artist of no small renown. What attracts you to the art?
MZ: I’m not violent. In fact, the martial arts served to counter my juvenile delinquent tendencies. I was a martial artist well before I identified as an activist and I see no contradiction in being a proficient fighter who is anti-war. It never fails to make me chuckle when some yahoo e-mails me with something like this: “You little wimp. If I ever met you, I’d kick your ass for disrespecting America.” In cyberspace, many assume I must be a tweed-wearing professor hiding in an ivory tower. They have no idea that I’m the guy who whipped their ass on the local basketball court last weekend.
To read the complete interview, please click on “more” below:
Nick Mamatas: You come from a fairly traditional family and have a father who was
in federal law enforcement. What pushed you so far left?
Mickey Z: At the risk of sounding psychoanalytical, I can name three possible factors.
1. Despite being traditional in many ways, my parents always encouraged me to maintain an open mind.
2. As the youngest in the family, I think I naturally sided with the underdog.
3. I spent twelve years in Catholic school, which served as an inoculation of sorts against both religion and authority.
Beyond that, I’ve been very fortunate to move in a wide range of social circles and therefore be exposed to many diverse influences. In the end, I’m strongly motivated by a sense of justice and a desire to shatter accepted beliefs...all while having some fun, of course.
NM: So what exactly are your politics? When I was editing ‘Saving Private Power,’ your revisionist history of World War II, I saw traces of everything from pacifism to classical anarchism to a vaguely Maoist Marxism in there. Pigeonhole yourself!
MZ: Not pacifist and “classical” anything. I’m anti-authority, I guess and that attracts me to anarchism but I’d be lying if I said my politics were specific to any one theory or tradition. I’m a fellow traveler on more than one road.
NM: Lots of activists spend years doing “theoretical practice” to use Althusser’s term by going to grad school, teaching courses on history, economics, and oppression etc. Not you though. Why stop with high school? Also, what kind of credentialist obstacles have you faced by not having a degree, if any?
MZ: I promised myself early on that I wouldn’t be paying off college loans when I was in my 30s. School never inspired or motivated me so I’ve instinctually sought other forms of learning. As you surmise, I have faced a fair amount of “credentialism.” For example, my first book, ‘Saving Private Power,’ was turned down by a well-known lefty publisher because I didn’t have “credentials.” Over time, however, it’s become a bit of novelty...and a drawing card. More and more people are drawn to me precisely because I don’t come from an academic background.
NM: Oh yeah? Which publisher? Name some bourgeois names! It was Verso, wasn’t it!!!
MZ: You got it on the first guess.
NM: Do you feel that you’re missing something? Do you read scholarly histories, keep up with journals and different theories in the social sciences?
MZ: Maybe I missed out on some interesting social opportunities, but that’s about it. As for scholarly histories and theories, I’ve tried but theory often comes off as masturbation. Millions are suffering across the globe and no theory has changed that yet. I prefer practice over theory.
NM:. ‘A Gigantic Mistake’ goes beyond politics to offer essays on all sorts of other sometimes whimsical topics like chess-playing computers. What is, if anything, the overarching theme of the collection?
MZ: Even when being playful, I’m pushing the limits and setting tradition on its head. Throughout A Gigantic Mistake, you’ll find suggestions (subtle or otherwise) that we humans have gotten it all wrong...that there are many other ways to see things and do things. Mistake, in many cases, follows the adage that a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down.
NM: What’s the overarching suggestion though? What would you have us do?
MZ: Accept the possibility that much of what we know is wrong...and that’s a good thing. It forces us to get creative and consider new avenues and approaches.
NM:. ‘Seven Deadly Spins,’ beyond what it says about US wars in particular, tells us something general: that propaganda always manages to work in the short-term. We haven’t stopped a war yet, even with the largest demonstrations in history in February of 2003. What does that mean for activists? Hell, what does it mean for the species?
MZ: I wish it meant that we were all frantically rethinking strategies.
NM: Like what?
MZ: That’s up to each of us but clearly, the old strategies are not working. If we can’t entertain the possibility that we are wrong, we’re no better than the systems we are protesting against. Unfortunately, activists seem mired in a very disturbing mode of conformity. Protests are carefully planned rituals that allow the powers-that-be to present the illusion that dissent is welcome in this so-called democracy. As a species, we appear oblivious to the ever-nearing point of no return.
NM: What about Seattle or the protests of both the Democratic and Republican National Conventions in 2000? Those were different. Did 9/11 send us back to swearing loyalty oaths and voting Democratic, or are we being ridden herd on by folks like Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky, who have endorsed Wesley Clark and John Kerry respectively? What about the old favorite of the radical left...class? Do activists, regardless of their beliefs, have too much of a financial/material stake in the system to want to overthrow rather than help perpetuate it?
MZ: I don’t think it’s conscious. The system of corporate propaganda we live under is remarkably successful and even the most seasoned radical is inundated with images and ideas that run turn dissent into a commodity and thereby guarantee that it’ll never change anything in a substantial way. Most of us (and I am not excluding myself) are just comfortable enough to keep us at bay.
NM: You’re an anti-war vegan activist who still supports Nader at least partially because Kerry will simply extend and perpetuate the war in Iraq. However, you’re also a martial artist of no small renown. What attracts you to the art?
MZ: I’m not violent. In fact, the martial arts served to counter my juvenile delinquent tendencies. I was a martial artist well before I identified as an activist and I see no contradiction in being a proficient fighter who is anti-war. It never fails to make me chuckle when some yahoo e-mails me with something like this: “You little wimp. If I ever met you, I’d kick your ass for disrespecting America.” In cyberspace, many assume I must be a tweed-wearing professor hiding in an ivory tower. They have no idea that I’m the guy who whipped their ass on the local basketball court last weekend.
NM: Can we relate the martial arts directly to politics? Don’t many of them come from outgunned peasants and monks training themselves to fight back against oppression?
MZ: I love the fact that many styles emerged in such a way as to disguise their martial nature. Much of that history is lost today...but it’s there, just below the surface ready to be reclaimed when we finally get our shit together.
Copyright © 2005-2007 Mickey Z.
